Toyota Rav4 EV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: CHAdeMO for Rav4 EV
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:50 pm 
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doug401 wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
Also unlike LEAF, the battery temperatures aren't going to change much with the robust Tesla thermal control. We are only charging at 1C, and the LEAF is 2C with no battery temperature control.

We will be charging the Rav4 at a far slower "C" than any other current DC quick charged vehicle.

Can you dumb this down for me. What is 1C 2C?


"C rate" is the charge or discharge rate of a battery pack relative to it's size/capacity. In this case, if you charge a 50kWh pack with 50kW, that is considered a 1C rate. A Nissan Leaf's 24kWh pack would experience a 2C rate using a 50kW charger.

During discharge, we often use 16-25kW to drive around, which would be C/3 to C/2 rate. At C/3, the battery would be discharged in 3 hours (ideally speaking). At C/2, or 25kW for a 50kWh pack, the battery would be discharged in 2 hours. For charging, any battery charging at 1C or C/1 rate would be recharged in 1 hour (from 0-100%, not counting any end of charge conditions).

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 Post subject: Re: CHAdeMO for Rav4 EV "JdeMO"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:33 pm 
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This is a great idea and if the cost can be kept down, I am definately in.
I realize the numbers are different in Cali and there simply are not many RAV4 EVs in Wash but for those of us here it would be great.
Most of the time, like this weekend, even the 110v EVSE works fine. I traveled up to Whidbey Island and plugged in overnight. Lots of power.
However, occasionally, like a couple of weeks ago on Snoqualmie pass, I would happily pay for a quick charge. Checking the GOM while trying to kill time at temps below freezing while the L2 trickled power into the RAV was painful. Especially since I was sitting right next to a QC.
The trip to Portland takes 6 hours instead of 3. With a JadeMO it would just mean stopping to eat.

It is really not an economic arguement as much as an emotional one. Range anxiety really bothers most people and just having the JadeMO would quell the range anxiety. My guess is it would only be used very rarely, but worth every penny when actually needed.

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 Post subject: Re: CHAdeMO for Rav4 EV "JdeMO"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:27 pm 
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Location: New Jersey
This would be a dream come true, put me down for the Out of State JdeMO Kit.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: CHAdeMO for Rav4 EV "JdeMO"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:17 pm 
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Location: San Diego
Actually, I wonder if I should join the CHAdeMO association.

Airton wrote:
This would be a dream come true, put me down for the Out of State JdeMO Kit.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: CHAdeMO for Rav4 EV "JdeMO"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:52 pm 
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Location: San Diego
AvLegends wrote:
Is there any adverse effect on the battery long term vs 40 amp L2 charging?


The simple answer is no. The more complete answer is that any charging that heats up the battery causes more "wear and tear" than charging that does not.

With 240 volt * 40 amp charging, that's 9.6kW from "the wall", and with about 87.5% charger efficiency, that's 8.4kW / 386 pack max voltage = 21.76 amps into the battery.

The CHAdeMO will do 386 volts * 120 amps into the battery = 46.3kW, or about five times the speed. That won't quite translate into a normal 5 hour full charge at 40 amp AC being reduced to 1 hour; it will likely be about 1.5 hours for a full charge on CHAdeMO.

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 Post subject: Re: CHAdeMO for Rav4 EV "JdeMO"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:03 pm 
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Location: San Diego
n3ckf wrote:
I'd do it for $2K. not that many chargers out there yet, but if the mod was reversable i'd do it.
I'd worry about blowing up the battery though...


I don't think we will "blow up" any batteries, and that's because the Tesla Battery Management System (BMS) is what controls the charge, not the DC charger.

If the battery was getting too hot, the BMS would limit or stop the charge, and/or increase the battery cooling.

The battery is fused, also.

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tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
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 Post subject: Re: CHAdeMO for Rav4 EV "JdeMO"
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:26 am
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Location: Austin, TX
Tony, do you have a voltage profile of the pack while being charged? Does it reach 428V during standard charge and 444V during extended charge?

With regard to less expensive ChadeMo sockets than Nissan Retail, what about checking with a friendly Mitsubishi dealership to see if they can order them at a lower cost since the i-MiEV also uses it?

Another option is to start calling junk yards to see if any Leaf's have been totaled out and see if a charging port is available to pluck.

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 Post subject: Re: CHAdeMO for Rav4 EV "JdeMO"
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:26 am
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Location: Austin, TX
Here are pictures of a Gen1 RAV4EV that has a CHAdeMo charging port (bottom two pictures).

http://www.evnut.com/vaca_dc_fast_charger.html

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EVSE, AeroVironment 30A, 7.4kW
Reciever Hitch, CURT Class III Round Tube
Cargo Liner
Modified 120VAC EVSE to also accept 240VAC
Hood struts- Sokie Tech
JdeMO Level 3 Charging port
12.6kW PV system
VIN 1396
Austin, Texas


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 Post subject: Re: CHAdeMO for Rav4 EV
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:52 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Lake Stevens Washington
Kohler Controller wrote:
doug401 wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
Also unlike LEAF, the battery temperatures aren't going to change much with the robust Tesla thermal control. We are only charging at 1C, and the LEAF is 2C with no battery temperature control.

We will be charging the Rav4 at a far slower "C" than any other current DC quick charged vehicle.

Can you dumb this down for me. What is 1C 2C?


"C rate" is the charge or discharge rate of a battery pack relative to it's size/capacity. In this case, if you charge a 50kWh pack with 50kW, that is considered a 1C rate. A Nissan Leaf's 24kWh pack would experience a 2C rate using a 50kW charger.

Thank you... I got it now.
SeattleRav4 wrote:
It is really not an economic arguement as much as an emotional one.
Very true... An emotional one at many levels. I've been told by many a Leafers "since it doesn't have quick charge, they aren't interested in the Rav". I'd reply "but the battery is twice as big negating a lot of public charging" Back and forth we'd go. Now what are they going to say?

And of course there is the Toyota Corp. Since rotating my tires out of state under warranty is too much for you, making the vehicle as it should have been from the start IS very emotionally satisfying. The forbidden upgrade, for the forbidden out-of-state vehicle. :o

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 Post subject: Re: CHAdeMO for Rav4 EV "JdeMO"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:19 pm
Posts: 34
Tony, count me in for anything under $3K. With only a 3 year old Leaf and a Rav4EV I'm sick of renting ICEs.


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