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 Post subject: Re: PV Solar sizing with and without EV
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 4:36 am 
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Location: Los Altos, CA
ravisekhar wrote:
With The Release of Tesla Power Wall for Just $3500 for 10 KW. Has any one calculated what will be the Total cost with Inverter and installation.

Based on the webpage http://www.pge.com/en/mybusiness/save/solar/sgip.page PG&E has a rebate of $1.46 per W. So for 10 KW installation are we going to get back a rebate of 14,600 from PG&E. Too good to be true or my calculations are wrong.
Your calculations are wrong.

SGIP is per Watt. The PowerWall is only 2kW average power, but 10kWh capacity. You would need 5 PowerWalls at $17,500 to get $14,600 from PG&E, if it is eligible for the full amount. Actually, now that I think about it, you would need to buy the 7kWh unit to be eligible for SGIP.

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 Post subject: Re: PV Solar sizing with and without EV
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 2:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:51 pm
Posts: 33
miimura,
Thanks for the clarification. it looks like 10 KW system is better buy if it can get 3 KW average power .

If anyone is planning to get this installed in Bay Area, Let me know if we can go as a group and get better deal to get it installed.

My plan is to recharge the battery at night for 11 cents and use it during the peak times.


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 Post subject: Re: PV Solar sizing with and without EV
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 2:57 am 
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:02 pm
Posts: 137
Location: San Francisco, CA
ravisekhar, the 10kW Powerwall is intended only for backup power. It uses different batteries than the Tesla traction batteries or the 7kW Powerwall, and is not designed to be discharged and recharged daily. If you're planning to be pulling power from the Powerwall daily, you'll need the 7kW or several 7kW in series.

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 Post subject: Re: PV Solar sizing with and without EV
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 3:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 520
I don't think you can be on net metering with a battery in CA.
Battery would need to be separate so that it could not back feed into the grid.
Not sure how Powerwall could be used to supplement home power as the solar fades off in the evening.


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 Post subject: Re: PV Solar sizing with and without EV
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 3:33 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:49 pm
Posts: 9
smkettner wrote:
I don't think you can be on net metering with a battery in CA.
Battery would need to be separate so that it could not back feed into the grid.
Not sure how Powerwall could be used to supplement home power as the solar fades off in the evening.


This. Back when we first had solar, PGE specifically prohibited batteries with TOU to minimize gaming of the grid (charge batteries at night and sellback during day at peak rates).


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 Post subject: Re: PV Solar sizing with and without EV
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 4:25 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1569
Location: Los Altos, CA
montreid wrote:
smkettner wrote:
I don't think you can be on net metering with a battery in CA.
Battery would need to be separate so that it could not back feed into the grid.
Not sure how Powerwall could be used to supplement home power as the solar fades off in the evening.


This. Back when we first had solar, PGE specifically prohibited batteries with TOU to minimize gaming of the grid (charge batteries at night and sellback during day at peak rates).
You could still power your loads from battery after the sun went down, but was still in the Peak rate period. That way your household use would not eat up your Peak generated kWh. Then you could either charge the battery from the grid off-peak, or with morning sunshine. The battery cannot actually feed back into the grid, but can minimize your household usage at selective times.

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 Post subject: Re: PV Solar sizing with and without EV
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 8:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:15 am
Posts: 221
There is an app called PG&E toolkit on IPhone, it actually shows you based on your usage from last month and see what your amount would be if you use the Powerwall.


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 Post subject: Re: PV Solar sizing with and without EV
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:02 pm
Posts: 137
Location: San Francisco, CA
Quote:
This. Back when we first had solar, PGE specifically prohibited batteries with TOU to minimize gaming of the grid (charge batteries at night and sellback during day at peak rates).

I thought Musk and SolarCity successfully lobbied the CPUC to allow battery storage on NEM.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Solar-Paired-With-Energy-Storage-Scores-a-Regulatory-Win-in-California

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 Post subject: Re: PV Solar sizing with and without EV
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 7:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:49 pm
Posts: 9
eschatfische wrote:
Quote:
This. Back when we first had solar, PGE specifically prohibited batteries with TOU to minimize gaming of the grid (charge batteries at night and sellback during day at peak rates).

I thought Musk and SolarCity successfully lobbied the CPUC to allow battery storage on NEM.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Solar-Paired-With-Energy-Storage-Scores-a-Regulatory-Win-in-California


Good read. Still not clear how SDGE/PGE would allow for this grid-tied with batteries. Electricity flows based on draw or feed. If you turn on the batteries during the day it'll feed the system = 'gaming' the grid and one can 'generate' simply by discharging the batteries.

http://www.bluepacificsolar.com/solar/backup-power.html looks like a whole package at 4400watts for 10kw total system.

Scenario which PGE/SDGE would probably object:
We're already net producers during day and borderline consumers on semi-pk:
-add batteries:
-charge at night
-discharge gradually between 12noon-6pm.
-netmetering wouldn't know the difference.

Only way to keep this 'honest' would be a completely secondary circuit to allow batteries to Charge one way; and discharge another route which I don't know if that's even possible---any electricians out there?


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 Post subject: Re: PV Solar sizing with and without EV
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 2:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 520
eschatfische wrote:
Quote:
This. Back when we first had solar, PGE specifically prohibited batteries with TOU to minimize gaming of the grid (charge batteries at night and sellback during day at peak rates).

I thought Musk and SolarCity successfully lobbied the CPUC to allow battery storage on NEM.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Solar-Paired-With-Energy-Storage-Scores-a-Regulatory-Win-in-California


Read it again. Still cannot back feed on standard net metering plan. Second meter could be required. Power from the battery can power the home only.


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