Solar panels for home for those in SCE area

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ghever

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
56
For thise with Rav4 in SCE area, have you gone solar and if so what have you been able to save?

We just bought a house in Murrieta. I drive 100 miles each day on my rav so use about 30kWh per day.

Last home we were using around 14 KWh per day.

Our bill since switching to SCE EV program has been around $200 per month.

Trying to figure out if going solar will be worth it. We also have a pool in backyard now.

I know we will qualify for HERO program.

If anyone has used it, do solar panels get finances over 20-25 yrs?

Trying to figure out if that would end up costing me less than my current SCE bill.

Thanks,
G
 
I have a 3kW system. Paid cash. Break even is looking like 5 to 6 years.
Real advantage is getting on the SCE EV TOU rate to sell at 30 to 45 cents during the day and fuel the RAV at 9 or 10 cents at night.

HERO program looks interesting but I would go with a HELOC if available to you.
I prefer to get things paid asap and HELOC would appear to be more flexible.

In hind sight 4kW would have been better but don't go too big or you have diminishing returns.
Completely zeroing out the $$$ is different from zeroing out kWh when you are on TOU.

My annual bill was just over $2,000. Now closer to $250-$400.
 
I have had solar for almost 5 years and am extremely happy. The Rav4EV eats up electricity so having solar will really benefit you in the long run. I recommend SolarCity. Now they are doing 20 year or more leases versus when I did ours at 15 years. I pursued a one time lease, where you pay a one time fee and make no additional payments. It worked out to be cheaper than purchasing outright as well as getting SolarCity to maintain the system. Also should you sell your home it will be a no brainer for someone to take over the lease given there is no cost to them. If you don't have the money you can certainly get low monthly down to zero out of pocket. But you get what you pay for. Should your new buyer refuse to takeover the lease you will have to pay it off. So consider placing a payment that freezes the lease payment and prevents it from changing as a minimum. We designed our system to cover 70% of our usage. This was before we had a plug in car. If I was doing it today I probably would have upped it to 85%. Temecula gets really hot in the summer. Just my 2 Cents.
 
drmanny3 said:
I recommend SolarCity.

Look at the contracts.
eg:
If they install a solar system worth $20k, 10 years and you sell the house after 4 years, you would expect
something that you can pay off the system for about 60% of the $20k.
If you look at the contracts, most of the offers I looked at (including SC), had something like a 300% of the original price payoff price.

Buyer beware.
Imho, it's always better to remortgage your home or even get a loan somewhere.
I did complete install myself, and my payback price was 3.5-4 years.
for the complete system. With the increase in pricing of the utilities and pricing of solar has come down, I think that might be even less nowadays.
 
Congratulations on installing your own system! Here is how my lease works. As an example, mine is for 15 years, had I elected to go with 5000 down my lease payment would have been something like $60 per month without any increases over 15 years. If when I sold the home and the new buyer refused to take over the lease then it would become due and payable. I would have been responsible for the remainder of payments over the entire lease. SolarCity is very upfront and spelled out everything clearly. Remember it is Elon M. we are talking about. Had I gone with zero down, then they gave me the monthly payment plus a yearly increase for the duration of the lease. Again had I not been able to transfer the lease then I would have had to pay all the lease payments. Once I had paid all the lease payments I would have a choice of having the system removed at their expense, or having them update and start a new lease or they could walk away and it is mine. This lease program is not unlike the ones we have with Toyota. The end part may be different but generally if you fail to pay you can be obligated for the entire lease which you know in advance. Or if you sell the car and the new buyer does not qualify then you are obligated. I cannot speak for other contractors. I know having built some homes in the past that there are people out there who will cheat you. Had I been able to install the system myself and most importantly felt confident in maintaining it I would also have done the install myself, as your cost would be dramatically cheaper. In my particular case our payback was approximately 4 1/2 years. Having an electric car really helped in the payoff, especially when gas was more expensive.
 
Leasing is out of the question.

Im either buying or just sticking to SCE.

I was hoping someone had experience with the HERO financing program in so cali. It sounds like they finance that panels through your property taxes over i think 20-25 years.

If i want an 8kwh system, what is approx cost, my research showed around 18k but thats not including all the tax and state benefits and not sure if it includes install.
 
I realize that leasing is essentially paying a rental fee. However when you are dealing with technology that changes often, I think it is prudent assuming you can get a good rate to lease. Before you toss out leasing, I recommend you at least get an estimate. You can have SolarCity come out for free and review your energy bill for the previous 12 months and give you an estimate. When I ended up going with SolarCity, I did my homework. It was more expensive if I purchased the system then it was to go with a one time lease payment. That is assuming that you have the income to take advantage of the Federal and State rebates. The other issue is when you own the system you are responsible for its maintenance and repair. While I clean my panels I know that if the inverter goes bad that SolarCity will replace it labor and materials. They monitor my energy generation via WIFI and will contact me if something goes wrong. Even though the panels are generally warranted for 20 to 25 years the labor is not covered. So that is why I decided to go with a lease. Kind of like leasing the Toyota Rav4EV with free maintenance. Did you purchase your Rav4EV outright?????
 
Not sure what you mean by 8 kWh system.

My 3 kW (DC) system produces between 12 kWh (winter) and 18 kWh (summer) each day as long as the sun is shining.

I think you want to shoot for producing 50% to 75% of your annual usage for best return on investment.

Best to verify warranty and such with Solar City. My purchase has a 20 year warranty including roof, panels and inverter.
I am very happy with my purchase vs my neighbor with a lease.
 
Sorry I meant 8kw.

I just figured 8 kw would produce enough power to cover majority of my house and car needs but if you are saying its better to shoot for 50-75, maybe I can look into 6kw system.

Question being, can we stay with SCE TOU-D, have a system that supplies my house wil solar power and then use sce 9 cent/kwh rate during super off peak?

I basically always charge my car from 12-5 am.


Rest of day we use an avg of 14kwh.
 
ghever said:
Leasing is out of the question.
Im either buying or just sticking to SCE.
Great. Buying is the way to go IMHO.
I was hoping someone had experience with the HERO financing program in so cali. It sounds like they finance that panels through your property taxes over i think 20-25 years.
If i want an 8kwh system, what is approx cost, my research showed around 18k but thats not including all the tax and state benefits and not sure if it includes install.
I know where to get the big materials (panels/microinverters/gateway/rails) for about $1.5/watt.
On top of that the permits & the labor to install it and stands of the roof.
I think you could have it installed for about $15k imho.
 
drmanny3 said:
The other issue is when you own the system you are responsible for its maintenance and repair.
Which is next to nothing
Even though the panels are generally warranted for 20 to 25 years the labor is not covered. So that is why I decided to go with a lease. Kind of like leasing the Toyota Rav4EV with free maintenance. Did you purchase your Rav4EV outright?????

The labor is next to nothing, even when something happens.
You cannot compare the buying a rav4 without a big incentive compared to leasing a rav4 with a big incentive.
You are taking stuff out of context imho.
 
ghever said:
Sorry I meant 8kw.

I just figured 8 kw would produce enough power to cover majority of my house and car needs but if you are saying its better to shoot for 50-75, maybe I can look into 6kw system.

Question being, can we stay with SCE TOU-D, have a system that supplies my house wil solar power and then use sce 9 cent/kwh rate during super off peak?

I basically always charge my car from 12-5 am.


Rest of day we use an avg of 14kwh.
Yes you keep the TOU rates. This is a huge price advantage as you will get full credit during peak hours and purchase lots at super off-peak.
I am on TOU-DTEV-SDP. Sell a lot of power at 49 cents in summer and buy at 9 cents. That is a 5 to 1 ratio on price and for that reason you can go with a smaller system unless you must crank the air conditioner at peak hours. The TOU-D plans seem to have peak hours to 8p where the EV plan has peak hours until 6p. My thermostat in summer is set to drop the temperature at 6p and then go way low at 12a/6a to cool the house and let it coast through the next day peak.
 
Again keep in mind once you purchase it is your responsibility to acquire the State and Federal rebate. I am assuming you make enough money to benefit from the rebate. I personally am retired and so did not have the income and did not want to take the chance. This is another reason I leased the Rav4EV. It was easier to let Toyota take care of the Federal Rebate. Now back to the advice you are getting. I would agree on the 70% target of your usage over a years time. This will give you overall how many kilowatt hours you need to produce. My current system produces about 7700 kwh per year. Last year I used an additional 5000 kwh of electricity. We have had either the Leaf plugged in everyday or the Toyota Rav4EV. When we installed our system we did not have an electric car. We were driving a Prius. So today I would probably put in a bigger system than what we originally went with. Our SolarCity system is 5.10 kw DC or 4.65 kw AC. Annual production was to be about 7500 kwh. It has produced that and a bit more. I did consider buying it, but realized that I would have to maintain it over its life time. Also I did not want to do the work myself which would have saved a lot of money. So if you are handy and understand what it is you are trying to do, then go for it. With SCE's TOU if you are not home you can make sufficient money with net metering to overcome the cost of charging your car. Even though we are using about 5000 kwh per year the cost last year was about $235 for all the juice. So I am not complaining. My payback has been really good. If you are interested I can send you a copy of the quote that SolarCity gave me. They do a great job in engineering the system. Good luck
Manny
 
For leasing i am guessing the rate is around 19-20 cents/kwh.

House and car combined use about 45 kw/h per work day... Times 22 work days and 8 weekends, so if i am calculating correctly im using 1100kw/h per month on average.

Current bill is $200 per mo.

Leasing at around 20 cents would cost me over $200 per month u less i am missing something? I know id get fed tax credit, not sure if sce has any rebates left?

If I can buy a system for around $15-18k and can finance through HERO for 20 years payments would be closer to $70 per mo, unless my calculations are wrong?

All comes down to the financing terms. And yes I make over six figures so can use all the tax write off because i have a rental home as well.
 
My bill was about $200 per month on average. With our summer months becoming hotter I expect that our air conditioning use will increase. I reviewed my contracts and when I did the one time lease payment the cost per kwh was indicated to be $0.09. My one time lease was $10414. Payback on the one time lease payment was calculated at 6 years. If I had purchased the system SolarCity was charging $33000 but with Fed and State rebates the cost to me would have been around $16,500. The cost per kwh was calculated at $0.098 and payback breakeven occurred in the 8th year. Hope that helps.
Manny
 
drmanny3 said:
If I had purchased the system SolarCity was charging $33000 but with Fed and State rebates the cost to me would have been around $16,500.
Manny

How big is/was your system again ?
What is the price per watt installed ?
 
My system is 5.1 kwh DC and/or 4.65 kwh AC. I have 68 panels using thin film technology in three arrays on a concrete roof. 7500 kwh per year production. I paid a one time lease charge of $10414. It is a 15 year lease.
Manny
 
drmanny3 said:
My system is 5.1 kwh DC and/or 4.65 kwh AC. I have 68 panels using thin film technology in three arrays on a concrete roof. 7500 kwh per year production. I paid a one time lease charge of $10414. It is a 15 year lease.
Manny

So $33000 for 5100 Watt = $6.47 /Watt installed

panels/inverters/rails/connection wires = $1.50/Watt

So just the main raw materials are $7650
Permit is $400-500
standoffs, labor, electrical conduit, breakers: $3000-$5000

Rest is profit for SC.

And on the prices I give, you still get the rebates on income/utility company back.

And you still think it is a good deal....

Amen to marketing :twisted:
 
I cannot argue that if you are willing to do the work, including the design, purchase, permits, labor, etcetera I would expect that you would end up with a less expensive system. Not everyone here can do it themselves nor wants to. I noted that you calculated the cost at $6.47 watt installed. When you consider what I paid $10414 for 5100 watts that works out to $2.04/watt installed. Given I don't have to do anything, other than keep the WIFI going I am not too concerned. Unlike you I did not have the income to offset and therefore was not inclined to do it myself. I did not want to risk learning the process the first time by spending 2 1/2 times what it would take an experienced person. In the end we are free to make our own decisions. What was perfect for you was not of interest to me. The risk to reward was of little interest to me.
 
My 3kW was about $17k from SC. OK there are probably lower cost contractors. However SC navigated the permits, very picky HOA and provided the very best service possible. 30% Federal credit gives net cost $11.9 and should recoup a little more than $2000 per year. I am very pleased.

Others that saved a few $$ had extended install delays and reduced project size where they had extra panels not returnable. Also had materials dropped in the driveway weeks before actual install could start. SC showed up in the early morning and was done in one day including stucco repair and paint as required by HOA. A few roof tiles were broken during the process and were replaced the next week with no followup call needed. SC really provided superior service IMO.
 
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