Tesla Trumps Toyota: The Seven Reasons Hydrogen Fuel Cell Ca

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fromport

Well-known member
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Dec 27, 2012
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I found this article which is related to our RAV4EV Toyota/Tesla co-operation and wanted to share


For reasons that mostly defy logic, the otherwise shrewd car company, Toyota, is placing a large bet on hydrogen fuel cell cars, starting with the Mirai. At the same time, it has backed away from its partnership with Tesla to build an all-electric vehicle.
Toyota is going to lose this bet. There is little reason to believe hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles (FCVs) will ever beat electric vehicles in the car market.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/04/08/3643876/tesla-toyota-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars/
 
Toyota backing away from Tesla regarding an EV partnership has nothing to do with anything other than their back patting deal is over. Toyota requires no EV learnings or tech from Tesla. Total utter propaganda nonsense that is working in Toyotas favor.
 
4EVEREV said:
Toyota backing away from Tesla regarding an EV partnership has nothing to do with anything other than their back patting deal is over. Toyota requires no EV learnings or tech from Tesla. Total utter propaganda nonsense that is working in Toyotas favor.

Are you and I reading the same article ?

When the author writes
In any case, after looking into hydrogen cars for the umpteenth time in my career, I seriously doubt they hold any prospect for either marketplace success — or contributing to the climate solution — for decades (if ever).

You find that propaganda nonsense in Toyotas favor ?
 
fromport said:
4EVEREV said:
Toyota backing away from Tesla regarding an EV partnership has nothing to do with anything other than their back patting deal is over. Toyota requires no EV learnings or tech from Tesla. Total utter propaganda nonsense that is working in Toyotas favor.

Are you and I reading the same article ?

When the author writes
In any case, after looking into hydrogen cars for the umpteenth time in my career, I seriously doubt they hold any prospect for either marketplace success — or contributing to the climate solution — for decades (if ever).

You find that propaganda nonsense in Toyotas favor ?

The propaganda Toyota spews about not wanting to ever be in the EV market and about why they partnered with Tesla. The media and general public still buy into this. The Tesla partnership was all about taking care of issues for both parties, it was never about Toyota needing help from Tesla to build an EV. The original press releases were utter nonsense designed to make both companies look good and almost insulting to Toyota's history.
 
4EVEREV said:
Toyota backing away from Tesla regarding an EV partnership has nothing to do with anything other than their back patting deal is over. Toyota requires no EV learnings or tech from Tesla. Total utter propaganda nonsense that is working in Toyotas favor.
Can you show me where in the linked article it says that Toyota needs/needed Tesla ?
 
fromport said:
4EVEREV said:
Toyota backing away from Tesla regarding an EV partnership has nothing to do with anything other than their back patting deal is over. Toyota requires no EV learnings or tech from Tesla. Total utter propaganda nonsense that is working in Toyotas favor.
Can you show me where in the linked article it says that Toyota needs/needed Tesla ?

No because they don't. I am commenting on the statement about Toyota backing away from Tesla regarding EVs. It seems you are not familiar with the history of this partnership and why it was actually done VS the PR smoke an mirrors version. The quote implies they are backing away from something. This was no surprise even the day the partnership was announced and before a RAV prototype was even seen. "Backing away" should be changed to "executing a pre-planned exit."
 
4EVEREV said:
No because they don't. I am commenting on the statement about Toyota backing away from Tesla regarding EVs. It seems you are not familiar with the history of this partnership and why it was actually done VS the PR smoke an mirrors version. The quote implies they are backing away from something. This was no surprise even the day the partnership was announced and before a RAV prototype was even seen. "Backing away" should be changed to "executing a pre-planned exit."

I agree with you on all accounts apart from me not knowing enough about the partnership ;-)

That statement you are referring to isn't what stood out to me when I read it.
It's more that Toyota is betting big on FSC, and that they eventually will regret it.
I think Toyota has so much experience with the old rav4, all the battery packs in the prius: you are right, they didn't need tesla.
But selling the factory, buying parts that were relatively easy to fit in an existing glider. it all worked out for them.

They avoided the ICE carb tax, even with selling the rav4 with considerable losses they still came out positive in the long run.
Their $50M investment in Tesla stock brought them big bucks.

All in all Toyota seems to be a smart company, but they are getting it wrong with FSC.
That is what I read as the essence of the article. ( or maybe what I wanted to read ? :) )
 
Toyota gets benefits from developing fuel cell vehicles, they also get the benefit of making it look like they have no interest in EVs. If EVs make money and are a viable offering Toyota will have a fleet. Does anyone believe that they have just abandoned large format traction packs and EV development in general? No, they are not stupid but some car companies are not as smart and Toyota surely banks on that strategy. When US auto makers declined gov funds for hybrid development Toyota secretly developed the Prius and dumped it on the US market, even then US makers still ignored it. Using a Tesla drive in the RAV was a investment validating, stop-gap marking ploy for both companies and likely a costly one as well.
 
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