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 Post subject: Re: New California Corridor Fast Chargers Installed
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 8:53 pm 
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Location: Los Altos, CA
Yes. From the initial looks of it, it is very disappointing.

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 Post subject: Re: New California Corridor Fast Chargers Installed
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 12:54 am 
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Location: San Diego
Michael Bornstein wrote:
Tony, I am confused. Are you saying that the EVRUS 25kW charger at Santa Nella is the same as the SETEC you mention? What is the SETEC model? Your post seems to be missing some lines.


That's my guess, yes.

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 Post subject: Re: New California Corridor Fast Chargers Installed
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 8:32 am 
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The rollout of fast charging corridors between cities is going so slow. It's terrible to have this patchwork of one point of failure chargers as well. Tesla set the example. Governments need to follow their example of redundancy.

If we put half of the money we are wasting on hydrogen fueling stations in California into fast charging stations for EV's, we could easily have an I5 corridor with multiple stations at each stop.

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 Post subject: Re: New California Corridor Fast Chargers Installed
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 8:07 pm 
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Location: Los Altos, CA
ChargePoint was awarded both segments of I-5 in the 2016 grant Proposed Awards. Those two segments are "South of Sacramento to north of Wheeler Ridge" and "Wheeler Ridge to Santa Clarita". The map posted above may in fact indicate that they will put redundant chargers at the same approximate locations as the 2014 grant. At this point I would prefer redundancy to location diversity.

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 Post subject: Re: New California Corridor Fast Chargers Installed
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:19 pm
Posts: 280
This may be an off-the-wall suggestion, but ...

What if we organize a drive-in to the Santa Nella site, have a dozen or so EV's show up to charge, and invite the media such as the Fresno Bee (they are affiliated with the Sacramento Bee), the LA Times, and the San Diego Union-Tribune to come and ask us questions.

We could have Tony or Tom Greene (both of whom are into the politics of EVs)(if they are available) explain the need for DCFC's along I-5, and how the pitiful charger at Santa Nella is just a waste of state taxpayer funding.

As there are no chargers on I-5, we would have to take CA-152 from either CA-99 or CA-101 to reach the site, another point we could make.

I have a friend on the Leaf site who is also a good public speaker.

The only weekend in June I cannot make it is the 12-13, but otherwise any Saturday would do.

Is anyone interested? Does anyone have media contacts?

Notice how good I am at volunteering other people to do the hard work :twisted: , I will be there and give whatever assistance I can, but I am a terrible public speaker :P


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 Post subject: Re: New California Corridor Fast Chargers Installed
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:43 am
Posts: 287
Location: Redwood City, CA
Michael Bornstein wrote:
This may be an off-the-wall suggestion, but ...

What if we organize a drive-in to the Santa Nella site, have a dozen or so EV's show up to charge, and invite the media such as the Fresno Bee (they are affiliated with the Sacramento Bee), the LA Times, and the San Diego Union-Tribune to come and ask us questions.



The California Energy Commission (CEC) has indeed done a poor job of rolling out DCFCs on highways so far, but we need to be careful with the message we want to get across. The last thing we want to see in the press is that spending state $ on EV charging infrastructure is a waste of money. Separating the concept from the implementation would be important. I suggest that we contact some board members of the Electric Auto Association who work with the CEC and other agencies before doing something like this (Guy Hall in Sacramento comes to mind).

I like the idea of inviting the press on 1 or more ride-alongs to show the current status of long-distance DCFC infrastructure in California. Imagine having a reporter riding with Tony or another one of us when driving from SoCal to the Bay Area or Sacramento. Slowing down for the "great electron desert" between SLO and Salinas, having to drive fairly far off highways to find the chargers, encountering broken ones, etc. Maybe driving to the CEC in Sacramento and speaking with Leslie Baroody or another staffer could be part of this. The CEC could get a change to respond to the current sorry situation and explain what they are doing petter for implementing the 2015 and 2016 proposal selections. This could be a good time to organize it with the Bolt arriving later this year.

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 Post subject: Re: New California Corridor Fast Chargers Installed
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 6:21 pm 
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I defer to Tom's wisdom and expertise. I too have seen how the press can totally screw up a story. I feel however that more has to be done than just preach to the choir on these blogs. If there is anything I can do (within my known limitations) let me know.


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 Post subject: Re: New California Corridor Fast Chargers Installed
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
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Location: San Diego
May 20, 2016

Dear California Energy Commission,

The U.S. Green Vehicle Council project is a project to complete CHAdeMO DC fast charging by the end of 2016 on a route that includes Santa Nella, Stockton, Coalinga Merced, Fresno, Tulare, Lost Hills, Lebec, Castaic and Oceanside, in our beautiful state of California.

The very first installation on this CEC grant in Santa Nella has a lot of shortcomings that I hope were addressed in the original contract. I have to assume the grant recipient plans to install the same unit at all other locations along the route. Since the actual unit that they installed at Santa Nella does not currently work, now is a good time to make sure all the ducks are in order on this contract.

My purpose of the below data is not to glaze your eyes over with a bunch of technical mumbo-jumbo, but this data is instructive. As I suggested at the California Energy Commission (CEC) workshops late last year and early this year, state money should only be issued when we know exactly what we are getting. There is one specification that is very difficult for less than fully honest vendors to fudge for DC charging, and that is the "Output DC Amps - Continuous Duty ". Obviously, fully compliant units for the applicable DC charge protocols PLUS the applicable UL certification would also be paramount.

"Continuous Duty" is particularly important. It should be rated at the ambient temperatures that the unit will be exposed to, and in the central California valley, that could be up to 50C / 122F. Many chargers, like the Nissan "44kW" units that are popular, can only output their full power for a relatively short period of time in a hot environment. Units like the new Tritium Veefil and Tesla Superchargers are liquid cooled to mitigate high temperature. We have NO IDEA yet how well this air cooled unit in Santa Nella will handle heat, should it ever become operational.

My belief is that this unit in Santa Nella is from the following vendor:

[EDIT: the vender is apparently different, per CEC]

SHENZHEN SETEC POWER CO., LTD
Add: #199, Setec Industrial Park, Dakan, Xili Town, Nanshan District, Shenzhen , China
Mobile: +86-13925204306
Tel : 0086-755-26527137 Fax : 0086-755-26527104
Web: http://www.setec-power.com

This unit was offered to me from the vendor in China at a sale price of $2999 in January 2016. I believe what follows are the technical specifications for the unit in Santa Nella. You'll note that it is not compliant with the CHAdeMO specification:


250-450 VDC output (CHAdeMO requires 50-500VDC)

208VAC * (58a * 1.73) = 21kW AC input maximum input power

93% efficiency from AC to DC (my guess) equals 19.5kW output MAXIMUM


Now, we can calculate the MAXIMUM amps into a typical LEAF at 396 VDC maximum battery voltage is 50 amps DC at 19.5kW. It may be lower, which our company can (and will) test for in the near future (again, assuming this unit becomes operational). Since the unit is advertised as "25kW", this is precisely why kW is almost meaningless to specify charger performance in terms of grant language.

The CHAdeMO specification is 200 amps DC maximum "100kW", with plans for 300 amps DC "150kW". Currently, virtually all DC chargers that are advertised as "50 KW" are between 120 or 125 amps DC. The Nissan "44kW" units are 115 amps DC. For comparison, all Tesla Superchargers operate today at up to 370 amps (an actual power output of about 120kW in most Tesla cars).

Any DC charger (not just this one) operating at 50 amps DC Continuous Duty will charge the following cars from 10% to 80% (70% net charge) as follows with "new condition" batteries. All battery capacities are the manufactures published size, or best guess for the "LEAF 2.0":


51 minutes minimum - 16.8kWh is 70% of 24kWh LEAF
58 minutes minimum - 18.9kWh is 70% of 27kWh Soul EV
64 minutes minimum - 21.0kWh is 70% of 30kWh LEAF
90 minutes minimum - 29.3kWh is 70% of 41.8kWh Toyota RAV4 EV
120 minutes minimum - 39.2kWh is 70% of 56kWh Tesla Roadster
129 minutes minimum - 42.0kWh is 70% of 60kWh future LEAF 2.0
180 minutes minimum - 49kWh is 70% of 70kWh Tesla Roadster
193 minutes minimum - 63kWh is 70% of 90kWh Tesla Model X


The above assumes that I have identified this charging unit at Santa Nella properly, but the issues remain nonetheless, even if I misidentified it.

Slow charging will not get the mass market out of their oil burning cars to drive along corridors, and further, the lowest end of income level drivers don't have money to buy a car for each specific need (longer range corridor travel and short range commuting).

Here are the specific potential grant issues that I see so far:

1) The Santa Nella unit does not yet work (always a bad sign)

2) The grant recipient appears to be inflating the actual PERFORMANCE of the unit, by suggesting that a LEAF needs only 12.5kWh to fill the battery from 10% to 80% and that their "25kW" charger can do that in 30 minutes. That is categorically not possible.

3) Any charger that has a power rating below "44kW" (115 amps DC) is grossly inadequate for corridor travel for current cars, and that will only become more acute / inadequate with "200 mile" range cars that are right around the corner with 60kWh batteries (Nissan LEAF version 2.0, GM Bolt, Tesla Model 3). Even Mercedes and BMW are increasing the size of the batteries in their EVs, and of course, our own world class California company Tesla already has 100kWh batteries planned.

4) Any charger that doesn't meet the basic DC charging protocol should not receive grant money

5) I believe that an approved list of DC chargers should be compiled by CEC, either through demonstrated past performance or through CEC specified testing, to verify good performance.

Thanks,

Tony Williams
R&D Manager
Quick Charge Power LLC

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1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
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 Post subject: Re: New California Corridor Fast Chargers Installed
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 11:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:19 pm
Posts: 280
Tony:

I think you are correct in your assessment of the manufacturer of the unit provided by Lloyd Tran.

EV Express is the brand name of the unit from EVRUS

EV Express is also the name of some different units provided by EV Centers of America

The units from EV Centers of America look almost identical to the units from SHENZHEN SETEC POWER CO., LTD

The ad copy in the EV Centers of America is very similar to the copy from SHENZHEN SETEC POWER CO., LTD, several of the copy lines are duplicated.

EVRUS is a partner of CleanTech institute

Lloyd Tran is a director of CleanTech and of US Green Vehicle Council

On the CleanTech website, it states that EVRUS is a distributor (not a manufacturer) of charging units

On the CleanTech website it shows the same charging units as the EV Centers of America but under the EVRUS name.

I believe that this is just a single company with many interlocking directorships to make it look like multiple companies.


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 Post subject: Re: New California Corridor Fast Chargers Installed
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:43 am
Posts: 287
Location: Redwood City, CA
TonyWilliams wrote:
May 20, 2016

Dear California Energy Commission,

...

Slow charging will not get the mass market out of their oil burning cars to drive along corridors, and further, the lowest end of income level drivers don't have money to buy a car for each specific need (longer range corridor travel and short range commuting).
...

3) Any charger that has a power rating below "44kW" (115 amps DC) is grossly inadequate for corridor travel for current cars, and that will only become more acute / inadequate with "200 mile" range cars that are right around the corner with 60kWh batteries (Nissan LEAF version 2.0, GM Bolt, Tesla Model 3). Even Mercedes and BMW are increasing the size of the batteries in their EVs, and of course, our own world class California company Tesla already has 100kWh batteries planned.

4) Any charger that doesn't meet the basic DC charging protocol should not receive grant money

5) I believe that an approved list of DC chargers should be compiled by CEC, either through demonstrated past performance or through CEC specified testing, to verify good performance.



Tony makes many excellent points in his letter, and it is great that he is pointing to the CEC that it is important that 1) their funded chargers to actually work, and 2) the corridor DCFCs need to provide sufficient power to enable truly fast charging (e.g. at least 115 or 125A).

Hopefully the CEC will learn from this current fiasco in implementing the remaining I-% DCFCs from the 2013 solicitation as well as the ones from the recent awards for N-S corridors. I'm not so sure though; I looked through the solicitation for the N-S corridors (first file in http://www.energy.ca.gov/contracts/GFO-15-601/) and saw absolutely no requirement for delivered current or power. Unfortunately it seems that the CEC is more interested in giving out our money than ensuring we will get a usable fast charging infrastructure. Hopefully the more established companies were picked for these new awards will do the right thing and install true high power units that are reliable. That appears to be true for at least some of the locations described here:
http://energy.ca.gov/2016publications/C ... 16-002.pdf

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