Toyota Rav4 EV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 3872
Location: San Diego
Dsinned wrote:
Your trip sounds like mostly freeway driving, so I am not surprised you average is a little on the "low side", but still within a +/-1 mile variation.


All freeway at the stated speeds.


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 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 3872
Location: San Diego
I drove my Rav4 191 miles today, and now, after several long distance jaunts, I'm getting a good handle on performance. I started at 100%, drove 17 miles, and once again charged to close to 100% in about 45 minutes (9.6kW Clipper Creek, about 6.5kWh).

It was over 80 miles to a meeting, then a few more miles to find a charging station. I charged for 1+14 hours at 6.05kW for a total of 7.4kWh at the Tesla store in Newport Beach (ChargePoint). We ate at the Cheese Cake Factory, and then onward home. Unfortunately, it looked like my awesome plan was going to come up a bit short, so I stopped for 36 minutes at 6.05kW for 3.54kWh (GE WattStation).

The trip was driven at 55-60mph on mostly freeways. No heater in 55F - 60F temperatures and rain. I arrived home a few miles from dead ("LO" range).

41.8 kWh start
5.6 (6.5 added at 86% efficiency)
6.4 (7.4 added)
3.0 (3.5 added)
56.8 total

56.0 estimated burn

2+35 hours/minutes of total charging

191 miles / 56 kWh = 3.4 miles per kWh (294 watts per mile)

305 km / 56 kWh = 5.45 km per kWh (183 watts per km)


Last edited by TonyWilliams on Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:50 am
Posts: 1213
Location: San Jose, CA
TonyWilliams wrote:
The trip was driven at 55-60mph on mostly freeways. No heater in 55F - 60F temperatures and rain. I arrived home a few miles from dead ("LO" range, "Climate Control Limited").

41.8 kWh start
6.5 added
7.4 added
3.5 added
59.2 total

58.5 estimated burn

2+35 hours/minutes of total charging

191 miles / 58.5 kWh = 3.365 miles per kWh (297 watts per mile)

305 km / 58.5 kWh = 5.214 miles per kWh (192 watts per km)

Tony, pretty good mileage, but I think you meant 5.214 "killometers" per kWh! What was your indicated range before your trip? At an average of 3.365 mi/kWH, your effective extendted charge range would be slightly over 140 miles! Did you do another full extended charge when you got home and if so, what did your GoM say?

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Owner of 2012 Classic Silver RAV4 EV, 2012 Silver VOLT & 2008 Red C6 Z06
EMW JuiceBox Basic (fully optioned & customized) EVSE L2 charging station
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550


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 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 3872
Location: San Diego
Dsinned wrote:
Tony, pretty good mileage, but I think you meant 5.214 "killometers" per kWh! What was your indicated range before your trip? At an average of 3.365 mi/kWH, your effective extendted charge range would be slightly over 140 miles! Did you do another full extended charge when you got home and if so, what did your GoM say?


I fixed that and more. I had not calculated charger efficiency either. I did not do an extended charge today, and it showed 90/100 range in ECO Hi at 55F this morning.

The range before the trip, I didn't look. I did notice after I drove 25 miles, the GOM showed 85 to go, because I specifically was telling my passenger how that 85 miles will really be well over 100 miles of real range (and completely opposite of the LEAF GOM, which might say 100 and do 85).

I added 15kWh usable during the day, and at 3.4 miles/kWh is 51 miles of additional range. So, my real driving range without a charge was 140 miles.


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 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:24 pm 
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Posts: 1213
Location: San Jose, CA
That is really excellent range and sooo much more than such a crappy EPA (window sticker) rating of only "103" miles. I believe even Toyota has been overly conservative with its extended charge estimate of only 113 miles. Of course, estimates this low (or lower) will occur under unfavorable driving, climate control and OAT conditions. Although, an EPA window sticker of 114 (average of 104 standard charge and 125 extended charge), still conservative, probably would have been much more realistic and accurate to disclose to prospective buyers, and certainly helped sell more of these very fine RAV4 EVs.

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Owner of 2012 Classic Silver RAV4 EV, 2012 Silver VOLT & 2008 Red C6 Z06
EMW JuiceBox Basic (fully optioned & customized) EVSE L2 charging station
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550


Last edited by Dsinned on Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 3872
Location: San Diego
After living through the Nissan LEAF "100 mile" BS, I'm quite happy that they are conservative.

One issue has been folks who read the 73MPGe, and assume the car goes 73 miles.


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 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 3872
Location: San Diego
A FULL charge on a Tesla EVSE (you would need a very hard to find adapter, although some now have J1772) or from a NEMA 14-50 plug at an RV park (where they will call it "50 amp service") will provide 50kW in 5 hours if you have a 40 amp EVSE with you. That will provide the 41.8kWh usable power that the battery holds.

The Rav4 will travel 140 miles at 65mph (3.4miles/kWh) on level roads with no cabin or battery heating and take two and one half hours (140 / 60mph average speed = 2.5 hours).

The 40 amp max charge rate will provide 28 miles per hour of charging at 65mph driving speed (5 hours * 28 miles per hour of charging will provide, once again, 140 miles of range).

So, on our perfect flat, dry highway world at 70F or higher ambient, you will drive 2.5 hours and cover 140 miles, then charge 5 hours at the perfectly placed 40 amp charger. Every 7.5 hours, you can cover 140 miles in absolutely perfectly ideal conditions. But, the real world isn't so kind!

In 21.5 hours, your range is 420 miles at 65mph, so lets just say about 400 miles per day MAX.


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 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:17 am
Posts: 187
Since i cannot take delivery in CA, it looks like I will be shipping it to WA.

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 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:22 am
Posts: 64
Location: Sacramento, CA
SeattleRav4 wrote:
Since i cannot take delivery in CA, it looks like I will be shipping it to WA.

You can take delivery but then you'd be required to also pay CA state sales tax at the rate of the dealer location. Better to have it shipped to Oregon border (Ashland/Medford?) and then drive from there if you want to reduce shipping costs.

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'11 Leaf
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 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 3872
Location: San Diego
The Rav4's Tesla charger is 40 amps. Therefore, the "10kW" charger is:

Power -- Voltage -- at 88% efficiency into the battery
11kW ---- 277 ---- 9.7kW (the maximum voltage that the charger can accept)
10kW ---- 250 ---- 8.8kW (hey, it just happened to be 10kW)
9.6kW --- 240 ---- 8.4kW (typical residential power in North America)
9.2kW --- 230 ---- 8.1kW (typical voltage in the rest of the world)
8.3kW --- 208 ---- 7.3kW (typical voltage at a public charge station in North America)
8.0kW --- 200 ---- 7.0kW (typical voltage in Japan)


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