Leasing a new Rav EV, Should I refuse to sign this form?

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jimbo69ny

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2014
Messages
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Location
Ithaca, NY
I am signing the paperwork now for a new Rav4 EV and the last page is this.
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I think this is the form I have read about that states that I agree only to have my car serviced at an EV authorized dealer in CA. Should I refuse to sign it?
 
jimbo69ny said:
I think this is the form I have read about that states that I agree only to have my car serviced at an EV authorized dealer in CA. Should I refuse to sign it?
If you can get away with it yes, but good luck.
 
DevinL said:
jimbo69ny said:
I think this is the form I have read about that states that I agree only to have my car serviced at an EV authorized dealer in CA. Should I refuse to sign it?
If you can get away with it yes, but good luck.

I think if I fedex the documents back to him minus this one little form they may not notice. I have read that others have refused to sign it without any bad result.
 
Since I am in California, I did not hesitate to sign this document. However, the dealer called me back some months later because Toyota was hassling them to get the paperwork complete for all their sales. They wanted me to sign a new one. I told them I already signed it and sent them a PDF of the copy in my records. If the dealer you're buying from has been similarly hassled by Toyota, I doubt they'll let it slide.
 
Toyota is just stating the additional dangers of EVs and for safety Toyota recommends dealer service.
Just sign it and get your vehicle.
 
I'm surprised they'll let you lease it out of state. I thought they'd shut that down. Same thing for trying to use Toyota financing out of state.

I bought used (from Dianne) and did NOT sign that form.

Having said that, today I got shot down by both Toyota and Tesla service centers in Seattle. For Toyota I wanted the "Free 10,000 mile checkup" they promoted in a flyer sent to me (In WA). They said Toyota will not reimburse them, confirmed it by telephone with Toyota, BUT... said they'd do the non-Tesla parts for me at no cost and absorb the costs this ONCE. (I think that means tire rotation, washer fluid, and that's it.)

I had a charging interruption issue where charging stopped mid-charge (35 minutes in), started again after re-plugging in, stopped again after 40 minutes, tried a different charger (EVSE) and it stopped after 46 minutes... Power cycling on/off 4 times got rid of the message and the problem has never repeated. I wanted to have Tesla read the error codes. They said that couldn't work on the cars (even at my expense and not under warranty), and also didn't have access to the firmware or firmware codes....and couldn't help me. They also told me that they've had similar "firmware bugs" where false warnings were sent and to try power cycling my car a few time to clear the error.

Taking these cars out of state DOES entail a certain degree of risk. I'm hoping that I'll never have another problem like this....
 
smkettner said:
Toyota is just stating the additional dangers of EVs and for safety Toyota recommends dealer service.
Just sign it and get your vehicle.

Dangers ? Really?

They are trying to limit their liability for service and warranty costs for a car that they never wanted to produce, and that cost them MILLIONS to produce due to regulations.

I recommend trying the "don't send it in accidentally" method, and if they don't catch and you got your car, tell them to pound sand if they later catch on.

Then, we can use your car as the basis for a class action against Toyota for their bullshit related to harassing / denying payment to dealers and owners for service and warranty.
 
Larry_in_Seattle said:
I'm surprised they'll let you lease it out of state. I thought they'd shut that down. Same thing for trying to use Toyota financing out of state.

Dealerships are private entities in the USA, and it's Toyota USA that shut down the out-of-state thing last October.

Who knows what tricks the dealer is using to get this through? Things do slip through cracks sometimes...

Toyota, like all manufacturers, self polices their CARB-ZEV credits. As long as they claim it, and never get audited by the state, I suspect that this is the crack that gets overlooked.
 
TonyWilliams said:
"Then, we can use your car as the basis for a class action against Toyota for their bullshit related to harassing / denying payment to dealers and owners for service and warranty."

I'll want to add my name to that class action!


[Moderator edit: quote fixed]
 
Fed ex package is sealed and going out in the morning, without the form.

Thank you everyone for your input. I really like the car, I want it, but I hope I don't have issues. And if I do I don't want this form to bite me in the ads later.
 
I refused to sign that form because it basically says, "use of any charger other than the Toyota recommended Leviton 40amp charger will void your warranty." It hides that in a bunch of legalese, but fundamentally that's what it's trying to say.

Either the Rav4 EV meets the SAE J1772 charging standard or it doesn't, so that form should be unnecessary (and is probably unenforceable if you have a good attorney).

Of course, I also played it safe and installed the recommended 40amp Leviton charger in my garage (and use it almost exclusively)!
 
Blastphemy said:
I refused to sign that form because it basically says, "use of any charger other than the Toyota recommended Leviton 40amp charger will void your warranty." It hides that in a bunch of legalese, but fundamentally that's what it's trying to say.

I don't see that at all. Please elaborate what paragraph contains "void warranty"
 
I just wanted to update you guys.

They received the paperwork at noon on Friday. The internet salesperson said he was going to take the paperwork to his sales manager to " see if anything is missing". So far nothing more has been said about the form and pick up is scheduled for Monday.
 
I was at the end of the lease process when they gave me a form to sign "Rav4EV Customer Disclosure Form". Everything was fine EXCEPT the information about the limited range and battery life. They ask you to initial that you are aware that the Rav4EV battery CAPACITY REDUCTION IS NOT COVERED BY THE WARRANTY. I'm fine with this as long as there's some limit to it but there is no limit. Like within 80% of capacity or something. Therefore, it seems to me that if you sign this you are responsible for the capacity reduction regardless of how bad it is. So if on day 2 it only holds a 70% charge that's MY problem??? Did everyone else just sign this and not worry??
 
smkettner said:
Blastphemy said:
I refused to sign that form because it basically says, "use of any charger other than the Toyota recommended Leviton 40amp charger will void your warranty." It hides that in a bunch of legalese, but fundamentally that's what it's trying to say.
I don't see that at all. Please elaborate what paragraph contains "void warranty"
The paragraph prominently surrounded by a border:

"I agree to accept delivery of a RAV4 EV without having installed a Toyota-approved Level 2 (240V) 30A or 40A EVSE, and release & hold dealer and Toyota harmless from any damages resulting from this decision."

By signing that acknowledgment, you agree that use of any 240V charger other than the Toyota-approved Leviton chargers that results in damage (as determined by Toyota) to your Ra4 EV is not covered by your warranty. All damages will be at your expense since you're holding the dealer and Toyota harmless from such. The statement does not state that explicitly, but the implied intent is there, and a good lawyer could prove that the customer was agreeing to waive all relevant warranty provisions should his/her Rav4 EV ever use a non-Leviton EVSE.

Whether or not Toyota's lawyers enforce that provision is another question, and whether it's enforceable is debatable, but your signature on that line gives Toyota a lot of credibility for arguing in their favor should they choose to cite it when denying warranty coverage related to the charging system.

Let's say you start getting those "Check EV System" warning messages we've all seen. You bring your Rav4 EV to the dealership, and the first question you're asked is "Did you use a non-Leviton charger before seeing this error message?" You say, "yes," and the dealership hands you an estimate for repairs. You argue that the 240V charger you used was SAE J1772 compliant. The dealership pulls your signed release form and shows you where you specifically agreed that not using a Toyota-approved Level 2 EVSE (i.e., Leviton 30A or 40A charger) results in the dealer and Toyota being held harmless. You argue that the Check EV System warning indicates the car requires a known firmware update. The dealership asks you if you're a qualified technician certified to evaluate and repair the Rav4 EV. You say, "no." The dealership points to the estimate and says, "then if you want your car serviced, you have to pay for it since you did not comply with Toyota's requirements for charging the car under warranty."

I'm not saying you can't fight that in court and win, but it would be an uphill battle and would cost far more than just installing an approved charger at home.
 
Just never admit to using a non-Leviton EVSE. Toyota makes ridicules requirements, you should respond in kind. I personally have never used, a non-Leviton EVSE on my RAV4 EV.
 
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