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 Post subject: LEAF comparison / will the Model 3 affect resale of Rav4?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:27 am
Posts: 13
Current leaf owner, would like a few more miles and a larger trunk space. Rav4ev fits that space and is not in the same space as the model 3 but when sites like carmax are looking for $30k for a 2014 model it kinda makes me go meh...


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 Post subject: Re: Will the Model 3 affect the resale value of the Rav4?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4075
Location: San Diego
Model 3 is a midsized four door car with a conventional trunk.

RAV4 EV is a "compact" SUV (to not be confused with a Chevrolet Sububan, which is a HUGE SUV), with a really generous storage area.

It also has ground clearance for those pesky curbs that you might accidentally drive over.

If they were both gasoline powered, nobody would compare the two cars.

Compared to a LEAF, the RAV4 EV is an improvement in almost every measure:


1) RANGE - 84 / 107 miles for a new LEAF at 65mph, and 140 miles for the RAV4 EV with a new battery.


2) BATTERY DEGRADATION - LEAF has a battery that is not temperature controlled, and without much surprise, the results aren't good for cars in hot areas. RAV4 EV uses a cooled and heated Tesla battery which handles degradation quite well. That means that I predict around 15-20% fleet average degradation at 100,000 miles, so a RAV4 EV can still go about 100 - 120 miles. Most LEAFs will lose far more range, making an 84 mile car become a 40-60 mile car.


3) UTILITY - it's no surprise that RAV4 wins over a LEAF. You can easily add a trailer hitch / bike rack, and even a roof rack. At least one person has added the third row seating.


4) INTERIOR ROOM - big win for RAV4 EV


5) CITY SKILLS - probably close to a tie. Both cars have a respectable turning radius, and both cars are about the same length for crowded on-street parallel parking. I like the higher seating arrangement of RAV4 in town, where I can more easily see pedestrians.


6) POWER - the Tesla powered RAV4 EV would eat a LEAF for breakfast


7) REPAIR COSTS - normal body repairs would be far simpler and cheaper on the RAV4 (there are millions of 2006-2012 RAV4 in the world). Only a small number of parts are unique:

a. outside mirrors
b. goofy rear wind deflector
c. headlights
d. front facia

Almost everything else is straight off the 2012 Toyota RAV4 Limited (gasoline car), including the Yokohama mud and snow tires. They left off the wheel flares, roof rack, leather interior, front tow hook access, and rear spare tire (the actual rear door is from the RAV4 Sport).


8) MAINTENANCE - RAV4 EV is a real turd, compared to the LEAF. Keep it under warranty!!!


9) DEPRECIATION/ OWNERSHIP COSTS - provided that you keep the Toyota Platimum extended warranty, the RAV4 will have a far lower cost of ownership overall from a new vehicle, compared to a LEAF. As you saw with $25,000 - $30,000 RAV4 EVs on the market, I can tell that a 2011-2012 LEAF can be purchased for under $10,000. With Nissan about to release a 200 mile LEAF, and other 200 mile range cars on the near-term horizon, I only see the current LEAF going down in value.


10) RECHARGE TIME - while any LEAF or RAV4 EV can easily charge overnight, LEAF has a huge advantage with DC quick charging in areas that have CHAdeMO stations. There are about 11,000 of these charging stations now throughout the world in Japan, North America and Europe. Our company solved this problem for the RAV4 and now it can also charge and CHAdeMO stations:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=849

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Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


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 Post subject: Re: LEAF comparison / will the Model 3 affect resale of Rav4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:44 pm
Posts: 278
Location: SF Bay Area
The RAV handling is no comparison to the LEAF.

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 Post subject: Re: LEAF comparison / will the Model 3 affect resale of Rav4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:27 am
Posts: 13
I understand there's a crapload of difference is I have been looking at it for a while now. Again I'm just hoping that the price will go down


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 Post subject: Re: LEAF comparison / will the Model 3 affect resale of Rav4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1791
Location: Los Altos, CA
kieranmullen wrote:
I understand there's a crapload of difference is I have been looking at it for a while now. Again I'm just hoping that the price will go down
Be patient. This summer there will be a lot of leases coming to and end so the supply will increase. However, that also means that you will not be able to buy the Toyota Platinum Warranty since they will be beyond the 3 years of service. At that point you would have to buy the Used Car Vehicle Service Agreement, available only when buying from a Toyota dealer.

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 Post subject: Re: LEAF comparison / will the Model 3 affect resale of Rav4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:27 am
Posts: 13
Carmax warranty worth anything?


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 Post subject: Re: LEAF comparison / will the Model 3 affect resale of Rav4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4075
Location: San Diego
kieranmullen wrote:
Carmax warranty worth anything?



According to Carmax, it's better than the Toyota platinum warranty.

Obviously, your mileage may vary.

Let me suggest, however, that there is no way they're going to cover all the electronics from Tesla, and that is where the problems with the car happen. I suspect their warranty doesn't even mention things like DC to DC converter, or electric cabin heater, or gateway computer.

I'll bet it mentions mufflers, gas tanks and camshaft belts.

_________________
Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


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 Post subject: Re: LEAF comparison / will the Model 3 affect resale of Rav4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4075
Location: San Diego
kieranmullen wrote:
I understand there's a crapload of difference is I have been looking at it for a while now. Again I'm just hoping that the price will go down


Starting this summer, I think the price will go down a bit, because of an increase in supply from the first flood of lease turn-ins.

But, the car is popular and fills a very special niche. I do not see it falling in price like the Nissan LEAF, sorry. The best part for resale / ownership is that there is only about 2500 of them total in the whole world, and there will never be any more.

These cars can be upgraded and used for decades to come, just like the first generation of RAV4 has been. All that is required is a fast charge port (like the one that we offer) and a larger battery, that we intend offer someday.

_________________
Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


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