Toyota Rav4 EV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: Buying a Rav4 outside of CA
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:32 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:22 pm
Posts: 9
Pennsylvania RAV wrote:
As for powertrain...I'm in discussion with Tesla. There is a Tesla store/service center 68 miles
from my house...prob. one alot close than San Fran/Diego to yours as well. I'm trying to get
Tesla to buy this logic:

1. Selling more Rav 4 EV's is good for Tesla. (people love 'em for the Tesla componenets in no small measure). It's advertising and sends message to Toyota et al. that Tesla components have demand.


Good luck with that logic.

Tony's posting of the candid remarks by Elon Musk make it clear that Toyota BEV's desires are non-existant and its underscored by the lack of any Tesla badging on the vehicle. Not even a tiny sticker! That could be by Toyota's, Tesla's or both insistence. Seems like a proud association would display just that.

I own a Dodge Ram with the Cummins engine which Chrysler proudly displays the Cummins emblem on every one of them. In fact on both sides and sometimes on the back. They market the association in every way.

Which brings me to the original point. Even though the engine in my Dodge is a Cummins, when an injector issue arose out on the road, the local Cummins service center would not even look at it. I had to take the vehicle 150 miles to the local Dodge dealer for warranty work. The only way the Cummins dealer would work on it, was if I paid for everything out-of-pocket and then tried to get reimbursed by Chrysler. Not something I was going to gamble on. I'm sure Toyota and Tesla have the whole warranty thing nailed out contractually.

In February Toyota sold 166,377 vehicles in the US market of which:
17,812 Toyota Prius
693 Plug-in-Prius
54 Rav4EV (and they had to throw a bunch of money at that pathetic number)

There is no money in the Rav4EV. It's counter to their corporate bottom line. To say Toyota's not crazy about this vehicle would be an understatement and I bet they wish they had just bought the ZEV credits from Tesla instead (assuming they were for sale)


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a Rav4 outside of CA
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:12 am 
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Location: San Jose, CA
In retrospect, it is too bad that Tesla didn't do a deal with Toyota for the "rights" to the RAV4 EV, and in return, sold Toyota discounted ZEV credits. Then, Tesla could be the company marketing and selling this car as a "Tesla" instead of the absolutely pathetic job Toyota is doing with it. Under the TESLA brand, this car probably would of been a much more successful "first of its kind electrified SUV" story.

If this car was rebadged in TESLA logo, covered under a Tesla warranty, it could have been sold in all 50 states. It could of easily have incorporated a Tesla designed fast charger capability to take advantage of Tesla's fastcharger network infrastructure, which would of attracted at least a couple orders of magnitude eager buyers. Then, instead of seemingly endless dealerships passing on substantial cashback incentives on top of big discounts and 0% factory financing enticements, Tesla could likely sell this car at full MSRP (as Toyota tried to establish, or perhaps significantly lower as Elon wanted) with no purchasing incentives at all. In fact, there probably would be a "waiting list" of potential buyers for this same exact car across the country instead of nobody wanting to buy it only in CA. The joint manufacturing process could stay the same too, but with Toyota in the role as a major subcontractor. With a $100 million on the table to play with, the automaker versions of "let's make a deal", surely some other arrangement should have been possible and mutually beneficial to both companies.

If only Toyota did more thorough marketing research to begin with, and perhaps was more daring, "thinking outside the box", they wouldn't be in this predicament trying to sell what could best be described as a phenomenal electrified family SUV that only very, very few people in CA want to buy.

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Owner of 2012 Classic Silver RAV4 EV, 2012 Silver VOLT & 2008 Red C6 Z06
EMW JuiceBox Basic (fully optioned & customized) EVSE L2 charging station
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a Rav4 outside of CA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:12 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Denver
More food for thought for on-the-fence Seattleites:

By my calculations (see here to check my math), for a RAV4 EV buyer in Seattle the payoff time relative to a feature-matched 2013 gasoline RAV4 is now under a year thanks to Toyota's generous current incentives.


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a Rav4 outside of CA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:49 am 
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Heck, if you wait just a few more months, the 2012 RAV4 EV will probably have $15,000 in cash incentives, plus the $7500 tax credit, and still offered with 0% APR financing from Toyota, which means its effective selling price is waaaay LESS than a fully loaded gas powered 2013 RAV4 Limited. For all the money saved, you can just eat the shipping cost to have would-be warranty repairs to the Tesla drivetrain components performed by an authorized CA dealer and still come out way ahead financially. :mrgreen:

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Owner of 2012 Classic Silver RAV4 EV, 2012 Silver VOLT & 2008 Red C6 Z06
EMW JuiceBox Basic (fully optioned & customized) EVSE L2 charging station
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a Rav4 outside of CA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:50 am 
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I didn't check all the calculations for accuracy but
on the $1500 EVSE, you can get a refurbished Clipper Creek, off Ebay, for $750.
Tony swears by them.
that should push your breakeven even shorter

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 Post subject: Re: Buying a Rav4 outside of CA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:18 am
Posts: 208
Location: SoCal
SeattleRav4 wrote:
I didn't check all the calculations for accuracy but
on the $1500 EVSE, you can get a refurbished Clipper Creek, off Ebay, for $750.
Tony swears by them.
that should push your breakeven even shorter

$770 with shipping for a CS-60, 48 amp, the cable is a bit under sized, IMO with 8 awg wires.

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 Post subject: Re: Buying a Rav4 outside of CA
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:52 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Lake Stevens Washington
Great thread,
I've been considering a second Leaf purchase, but it appears an out of state Rav 4 EV is doable. I'm going to call Dianne in L.A. and chat. I'm in Washington state so the sales tax exemption is important. I need to research that some more.

Aside from not having a DC3 capability, the vehicle looks like a real performer. Besides... the DC3 charge station in and around Western Washington are hit and miss. Either broken, or there are 2 Leaf's waiting in line.

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2012 Rav4 Ev Imported from CA. Plate "4GETOIL"
2013 Leaf Slate SL Premium 2yr lease
2011 Leaf Red SL owned... SOLD
ClipperCreek CS-60
EV project Blink EVSE 6.6

The original hybrid, a sailboat, with plans to convert to elec propulsion/)..../)


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a Rav4 outside of CA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:53 pm
Posts: 43
Location: Lancaster, PA
You should also check with Korinne at Mossy Toyota in San Diego. They have less of a selection, but she was very helpful. Plus,
they are all pretty much same trim...except color.


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a Rav4 outside of CA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:52 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Lake Stevens Washington
Just a follow up,
I spoke to Dianne. Very helpful. My learning curve of Toyota's lease business model vs Nissan's lease business model was a bit awkward. Reading between the lines, I now know Toyota doesn't like to just come out and say "We aren't going to give all the $7500 tax credit money if you lease". Only to find this info in another thread after the fact.

So the "Deal of the Century" appears to be a purchase. But I'm hesitant. I purchased my Leaf, only to learn later that leasing should have been the best choice. The depreciation bug bit hard.

I also see the RAV4 as a public charging buffer. The huge battery pack, and quick 220 charge rates are the ticket to bypassing inadequate public charging. I, a generally positive EV nut, have become jaded. Going to Leavenworth on the EV highway... wrong answer, DC3 charger down at Skykomish as I look at a 4000 ft pass in front of me :? . Lets go to Bellingham to test the states 1st DC3 charger... wrong answer. It's Ice'd for 4 hours :evil: . Hey...let go to Seattle for the day. Ha Ha sorry, Blink units are half broken and several Leafs are waiting in line, and so am I :( . Did I mention jaded?

Another concern of mine is my Federally funded Blink EVSE. It's on a 40 amp breaker. It doesn't sound like it will cut it on many levels.

Anyway, if anyone can provide courage and wisdom it would be a help.

_________________
2012 Rav4 Ev Imported from CA. Plate "4GETOIL"
2013 Leaf Slate SL Premium 2yr lease
2011 Leaf Red SL owned... SOLD
ClipperCreek CS-60
EV project Blink EVSE 6.6

The original hybrid, a sailboat, with plans to convert to elec propulsion/)..../)


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a Rav4 outside of CA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:53 pm
Posts: 43
Location: Lancaster, PA
I bought the RAV 4 EV and am leasing a LEAF....just a lucky guess, but w/ newer 6.6 kWh chargers now available and lower price..
glad I did. In my opinion, the best deal on the RAV 4 EV is to BUY. Here's why: Better financially - full fed
and state tax rebates are yours...plus.. I don't think Toyota has much in store to change this vehicle...After all as
many realize, it's a compliance vehicle...they went to Tesla to build the guts for them...improbable that
a newer, faster charger is going to come out next year. I think this is the RAV 4 EV you're going to see for next
few years...and then nada or else they will start over on something new, if market forces persuade them it's financially wise to
do so. Nissan is clearly in this game for entirely different reasons and it makes sense that they will quickly
respond to problems, change the technology, try to make it more affordable, upgrade components on subsequent
models, etc. So, I guess I'm saying...I believe LEAF is likely to change a lot more and a lot faster. RAV 4 EV..
I don't think so.

Also, I hear your frustration about public charging stations and trying to figure out when it's financially best to
jump in, but remember this is still very early EV days....like ICE in the 30's...It takes millions of owners before
you discover some of the issues. If you want to be an early adopter,
there will always be these issues to deal with..there will be kinks that have to get worked out by motor corp.s,
there will be safety hazards...just wait until the first big crash and battery fire...it'll be all over FOX news as the
bane of the EV! But slowly gradually, I think it's going to catch on....at 2.5 cents per mile...compared to 9 cents
per mile in my former Prius....and with the inevitability of increasing oil prices as peak oil sets in...this thing is
gonna happen.

Early adopters help work out the bugs, I guess.

As for RAV 4 EV...I'd go for the purchase. At least that's what I did.


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