Toyota Rav4 EV Forum

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 Post subject: Talk me into it. Or not.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:58 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:16 am
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I've been looking at maybe getting a used RAV4 EV. I liked the one I saw a lot, but have to go back next week to drive it; I'm looking forward to that.

But the over-$20k price seems high for a car with no fast charge or warranty, and known issues with reliability and dealer support. I'm seeking to understand why this is and whether it will change soon.

Consider: the updated 2017 Ford Focus EV now offers 115 mi range and D.C. quick charge for $20k net of rebates. Similar price/specs for updated Leaf, Kia Soul EV, and soon the Hyundai Ioniq and updated VW eGolf too...for a brand new car with warranty and dealer support.

And the Chevy Bolt offers double the range for only a third more money.

(And another $8-10k and we're in shouting distance of a used Tesla, but I digress.)

I'd rather have the RAV4 than either---more room and power than the Focus, better stereo and seats than the Bolt---but I'd need to add $3-4 k for JdeMO quick charge, $1-2 k for Toyota or CarMax warranty, still not really be road trip capable, and still not know if I'd get the milling noise of death or if a dealer would fix it.

If Tony Williams' proposed extra battery pack kit were available right now, such that I could have a low-mile RAV4 EV upgraded to 60kWh-ish capacity, with JdeMO and warranty, for an all-in price similar to the net price of a base Bolt (assuming there's a bank willing to finance a used car for a third over its book value), then I'm just crazy enough that I'd totally do it. (The 115-mile cars are down on power, and the Bolt's a hoot but its seats are torture.) But he's said it will be a while before he can get to that project, and that leaves many unknowns...and meanwhile the number of RAV4 EVs on the road, the chances for hassle-free support for them, and, I assume, their value will decline.

As a lifelong fan of gutsy motors and station wagons (lifted or lowered, a wagon's a wagon), I'm trying to talk myself into it, but I dunno. It would certainly meet my strange desire for an obsessive automotive project, but I'm not sure that's a good thing when it's my daily driver/primary family car.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into it. Or not.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:40 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1788
Location: Los Altos, CA
The RAV4 EV is a different form factor and different utility than all the other cars you listed. If you need or want this size of vehicle, you need to decide how much it's worth to you. Saying it's the same price used as a new, much smaller car, doesn't make a lot of sense unless you feel they truly are equivalent. To me, they aren't. I have a 2015 e-Golf and I like the way it drives, but I would not drive it 200 miles in a day like I would the RAV with JdeMO and it can't carry nearly as much stuff.

Personally, I feel that a used RAV4 EV with JdeMO and 5 years of extended warranty (from the time of used purchase) for a total of $25,000 is a good value. There is also a chance you could find a car that is eligible for the New Car Platinum Warranty, but you would probably have to pay $25,000-$27,000 for the car and warranty and then add the cost of JdeMO. However, you would have a car with extended warranty coverage into 2024 and 125,000 total miles.

_________________
2012 Shoreline Blue #1462 w/JdeMO | 2018 Tesla Model 3 LR | 4.32kW Motech/Enphase PV Solar + 2x Powerwall 2 AC| Leviton EVB40 40A & Jesla Home Charging | 2015 e-Golf LE (returned)


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into it. Or not.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1788
Location: Los Altos, CA
Regarding support, I don't think it's an issue if you're in California. If you're out of state, then that's a different level of hassle that I might not want to deal with. My closest dealer is one of the best at servicing these cars, so I don't have any reservations about it.

_________________
2012 Shoreline Blue #1462 w/JdeMO | 2018 Tesla Model 3 LR | 4.32kW Motech/Enphase PV Solar + 2x Powerwall 2 AC| Leviton EVB40 40A & Jesla Home Charging | 2015 e-Golf LE (returned)


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into it. Or not.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:16 am
Posts: 2
Thanks folks, this is good input.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into it. Or not.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:07 pm
Posts: 49
Location: River Pines, CA
I went with a used 2013 Rav4 with 65k miles with Toyota used car warranty from a 2011 Nissan Leaf. The Leaf had 30k fewer miles but 30% pack degradation and Nissan wouldn't cover under warranty because it wasn't over 40% degradation. I also drive 2,000 miles per month on average and with the ability to charge at work for 1,000-1,500 of free miles being my reason to stick with electric.

With the Leaf and Rav4 I am able to get three car seats in the rear but I also enjoy the additional storage space. I have a van when traveling with more than 5 five people.

As far as quick charging I would take the Leaf to Petaluma, SF, and Santa Clara from Sacramento. Sure I would need to make a couple quick charge stops which would add an hour and a half of trip time but it would cost less then two bucks round trip or nothing at all if charging at a designated charge stations. I do anticipate getting JdeMO added but I'd have to see more quick charge stations near me to justify the expense.

I used ChadeMO quite a bit in the Leaf with 81 quick charges in three years. I currently only charge on 110v at home and successfully used it with my Leaf and Rav4 so far. I don't worry about range at all whereas the Leaf I would be close to empty as I was pulling in the driveway with no AC and no windows open in 100 degree weather.

I got my Rav4 for $17.7k and was happy with the transaction although prices have dropped.

I too am a car and motorcycle guy as well as my wife. Her dad built Ford racing motors and she has a 65 Mustang with a 302 she built in it but we love the instant torque of the electric motor and she enjoys driving the EVs now more than an ICE. Next car is going to be a used Model S with rear facing seats to replace the van. Once the younger ones are too big to sit in the rear the oldest should be off to college.

The cost to own a used model versus new is a no brainer. The monthly payment being less than half of a new lease or own payment is what got me. I bought our Leaf for $9k and got a pretty good return on investment with zero maintenance and home electric billing only going up $20-$35 a month with our previous utility. I hope to have near trouble free driving in the Rav4 but am happy that I have the warranty in place should anything happen.

If you don't need the space I would consider a used Leaf with new battery pack. You should get 3-5 years of trouble free driving. You may be able to get it for $6,500-$9,000 and if you don't want it after a year or two you will have a better selection of higher range electric cars to choose from.

What is your commute and ideal trip needs? An EV as a single family car is easily doable if your commute is within 40-60 miles roundtrip with no access to external charging and some freeway driving with AC or heater use.

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13 RavEV: 2263 Miles: 121,000 and counting w/ JdeMO


Last edited by co2112 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into it. Or not.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4068
Location: San Diego
co2112 wrote:
I went with a used 2013 Rav4 with 65k miles with Toyota used car warranty from a 2011 Nissan Leaf.... If you don't need the space I would consider a used Leaf with new battery pack. You should get 3-5 years of trouble free driving. You may be able to get it for $6,500-$9,000 and if you don't want it after a year or two you will have a better selection of higher range electric cars to choose from.


Welcome to the RAV4 EV. There are quite a few previous LEAF owners, like myself (I had two).

If your only job is to commute some short distance, there are multitude of cars that can do that job. particularly here in California. The unique part of the RAV4 has the utility of a larger vehicle, in addition to increase range over all those "other cars".

I certainly do not see myself ever owning another sub-100 mile range car ever again. Actually, I might not ever buy another sub-200 mile range car again!!!

Unfortunately, there does not appear to be a replacement for the RAV4 on the horizon. I plan on keeping mine for quite some time.

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Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into it. Or not.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:35 pm
Posts: 11
I also just bought a used 2103 Rav 4EV Dec. of 2016 and love it. I looked for over a year to find a car that I fit in. I am 6'5" (and long wasted) and couldn't fit in nearly all of the evs out there, including the Chevy Volt or Tesla S. The Tesla X was perfect except the $80-100K price.
Aside from me fitting comfortably in the car,, the ultimate kicker was that the RAV 4 EV was ultimately a Tesla S with its motor, battery and controller.

I am using a 40A, 10kW level 2 Juice Box charger and it works perfect. I plug it into a NEMA 14-50 outlet and I can take it with me if I want to find RV parks with outlets.

I have always had a dream of driving a car on solar energy and now, with my home solar system, that is a reality. I use the car for Southern California commuting and for now I have kept my Buick Roadmaster station wagon ICE for longer distances.

After my long search, I came to the conclusion that the market is not mature enough for my ultimate car. There either needs to be a robust infrastructure for EV charging or a plug-in hybrid (that I can fit in!) with 100-200 mi. all elec. range and 5-600 mile total range.

_________________
2013 Rav4 EV
Juice Box 40A 10kW portable NEMA 14-50
3 kW micro-inverter PV solar system


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into it. Or not.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:13 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Berkeley, CA
We have 2 Ravs, and I agree with everything above - I simply do not fit comfortably in anything less than the X, and even that is not as well laid out as my RAV for carrying a bunch of tools in the rear working as a locksmith. My wife commutes from Berkeley to San Jose twice a week, going round trip without a recharge. We've added JdeMO to both cars, and now feel far more comfortable taking trips to Sacramento or Monterey -

When we got ours 2 and 3 years ago, there was truly nothing comparable. Now, there looks like a few vehicles are appearing that are getting close, but still not as good all-around as the Rav - I plan to wait another 2-3 years and hope that by then there will be more options that meet my desires, and hopefully have another 50 to 100 miles of range and more advanced features.

I wouldn't try to sell one to anyone - there seem to be a few people who've had issues and these are definitely orphan vehicles - but if it works for you, they're really great vehicles - and ultimately, I hope we'll be able to re-cycle the battery packs into our home energy storage system - :D


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into it. Or not.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:13 am
Posts: 5
Recently bought a 2013 with 23k miles in So Cal for $14.8k plus tax title etc.
Had Toyota check it out before purchase and they reported no issues.

Turned in my BMW i3 from a lease and loved it but could not be happier with the RAV4 ev space, range, power. No other comparable car except Tesla model x at 7x the price!

115 mile charge goes mile for mile on odometer with no degradation in battery capacity, in normal driving at 65 mph.

Plan to drive it until the wheels fall off!


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 Post subject: Re: Talk me into it. Or not.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:14 am
Posts: 2
Well, I talked myself into it! I've been eyeing these cars for several years but live in Tennessee. I was a little worried about getting them maintained but I've watched the boards and it seems doable (under warranty!) -

I bought a silver 2012 with less than 14,000 miles from Carvana - they don't charge for shipping in Nashville so it was perfect to get it here. I registered it with Toyota and all of the recalls were already taken care of (in Texas where the car spent most of its life). It doesn't look like anything has been done except for the recalls. It could be the low mileage of the vehicle.

I have the option of the Carvana Care extended warranty but after seeing the Carmax warranty issues on here, I'm going to try to purchase the Toyota used car warranty. It's well under the mileage for the platinum warranty everyone wants but it's too old :(

I've had it for about a week. There is free level 2 charging 5 blocks from my office so I'm surviving on that and level 1 charging at home. I'll probably eventually spring for buying a level 2 charger at home.


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