Toyota Rav4 EV Forum

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 Post subject: Financial Considerations -warranty, charge cost, resale $??
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:18 am 
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Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 7:48 am
Posts: 17
Hi All,

my wife & I really like the Rav4 EV and we've been reading up here a lot, test drove it, loved it. Main thing I'm wondering about is the $$$.

Couple questions:

Two main choices are a 2012 with 24k for $17k (from Carmax) vs a 2014 (from Toyota dealer) for $21k. Which would you recommend?

Warranty:
What about warranties - is it worth it? Is it worth paying $4k more just to be eligible for a new car warranty (say 8 yrs $125k for $1,500) vs the used car warranty (how much is that anyway and how does it work?)

Cost of Charging:
How much do you spend on average in (non-home) charging? (We dont have to pay for electricity at our current place).
How often do you use the JdeMo if you have one?

Resale Value: We may migrate in about 4 yrs - how well do you think this vehicle will hold its value? Anyone want o hazard a guess as to how much these will sell for then?


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 Post subject: Re: Financial Considerations -warranty, charge cost, resale
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1706
Location: Los Altos, CA
Personally, I would buy the one from the Toyota dealer and negotiate the price to include a 5yr/60k mi Used Car Platinum Service Agreement (extended warranty). It is very unlikely that it is eligible for the New Car Platinum warranty. The approximate price of the used car service agreement is about $2,500. Unless it is very low mileage and in cosmetically perfect condition, you should be able to get the service agreement included in their $21k asking price. If the car is pristine and low mileage, then I would pay up to $22k including the warranty.

Cost of at-home charging depends entirely on where you live and your utility rates. Your situation sounds unusual if you don't pay for your home electricity. The best possible situation for owning an electric car is for it to charge at home while you're sleeping. With a car like the RAV4 EV, you really need a 240V EVSE. If I was a landlord and including the electricity in the rent, there's no way I would allow EV charging without some kind of additional cost. If separate metering is not available, then a fixed monthly fee paid to the landlord to amortize the installation cost, plus some approximated electricity cost would be appropriate.

Because I have at-home charging, I don't charge away from home unless I'm driving beyond the range of the car. I have JdeMO and have used it about half a dozen times in 15 or 16 months. I don't have a gas car any more, so having JdeMO allows me to avoid imposing on extended family to borrow a car or renting one on those rare occasions that I want to drive further.

Nobody really knows how much these cars will be worth years down the road. Right now the prices are depressed because people don't really know about them and there are quite a few on the market after lease turn-in.

_________________
2012 Shoreline Blue #1462 w/JdeMO | 2018 Tesla Model 3 LR | 4.32kW Motech/Enphase PV Solar + 2x Powerwall 2 AC| Leviton EVB40 40A & Jesla Home Charging | 2015 e-Golf LE (returned)


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 Post subject: Re: Financial Considerations -warranty, charge cost, resale
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:59 pm
Posts: 11
I just bought my Rav4 EV from a Toyota dealer in Wisconsin last month. Its a 2014, had 32K miles and is in very good condition. Based on my experiences the past 3 weeks and being a recent purchase here is my take. I paid $18,500 plus $2200 for a 8yr/100K/$0ded Warranty

Quote:
Two main choices are a 2012 with 24k for $17k (from Carmax) vs a 2014 (from Toyota dealer) for $21k. Which would you recommend?


I don't know much about CarMax, but I don't think you can get a Toyota warranty from them. I'd stick with the dealer if you want to get a Toyota warranty. Unless you're wealthy enough you can afford to take a huge lose if something goes wrong, you're going to want the get a Toyota Warranty. Also, be sure you know what warranty your getting. I'm still waiting on my warranty paperwork from Toyota for 8yr, 100K miles TPW. After doing some more reading, it sound like they are pretty strict on the 3year eligibility for the TPW, so I'm expecting its taking longer because I'm going to get denied. As it was a sticking point in negotiations, the salesman told me they actually called Toyota and verified it was still eligible when they sold me a TPW. The vehicle was just a couple months over 3 years from original lease date when I bought it. Either way, I'll have to wait and see how this pans out. I wish I would have done just a little more homework on this part.

Quote:
Warranty:
What about warranties - is it worth it? Is it worth paying $4k more just to be eligible for a new car warranty (say 8 yrs $125k for $1,500) vs the used car warranty (how much is that anyway and how does it work?)


See above. I'd suspect your only going to be eligible for the used car warranty. I have no Ideas how much the used care warranty cost, but If you search this forum I bet you can get an answer.


Quote:
Cost of Charging:
How much do you spend on average in (non-home) charging?


$0, I only charge at home. As for non-home charging, here in WI we do have mostly Free charging at public places, but there are so few its no real help to me.

I don't actually know how much my bill will go up yet, but I know my driving habits well and calculated using 2.8 mi / kWhr as averaged for the last 3 weeks [I drive 75-80mph]. With a daily 58mi commute I'm expecting and increase of about $85. I was paying just about $300 for gas/mth. I got a 240V/40A Juciebox pro charger and It takes less than 3 hours to recharge my commute miles each night. Even if you are renting its going to be better to get a home charger and work out a deal with your land lord. I do not have JdeMo nor do I plan on getting one.


Quote:
Resale Value:


I used a calculator on Iseecars.com. I'm sure it was probably based on Rav4 hybrid, but it said after 3yrs it would lose $4K, which I thought was low. My take on it is: "its a Toyota, as long as its moving it will have some value".

FYI, my insurance agent told me the rate for the vehicle is based on the hybrid Rav4.


After 3 weeks I still love this car. Charging and range has not been an issue. If you do decide to buy one, I would ask the dealer to reprogram the "reverse beep" so its not constantly repeating. Its probably the most annoying thing I've found so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Financial Considerations -warranty, charge cost, resale
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:53 pm
Posts: 15
I'm somewhat in the same boat as you ;-)

Christopher Castagne wrote:
Hi All,

my wife & I really like the Rav4 EV and we've been reading up here a lot, test drove it, loved it. Main thing I'm wondering about is the $$$.


Same Here :-), Though we haven't had an opportunity to test drive one yet...

Christopher Castagne wrote:
Couple questions:

Two main choices are a 2012 with 24k for $17k (from Carmax) vs a 2014 (from Toyota dealer) for $21k. Which would you recommend?

Warranty:
What about warranties - is it worth it? Is it worth paying $4k more just to be eligible for a new car warranty (say 8 yrs $125k for $1,500) vs the used car warranty (how much is that anyway and how does it work?)


I would go for the one that can offer your either a New Toyota Platinum 8 year/125K mile warranty, or the Used Toyota Platinum 5 year/60K mile warranty. Don't opt for the non-toyota warranty. The Rav4 EV has some specialized equipment that only Toyota (with Tesla help) can service.

Christopher Castagne wrote:
Cost of Charging:
How much do you spend on average in (non-home) charging? (We dont have to pay for electricity at our current place).
How often do you use the JdeMo if you have one?


Still deciding if the Rav4 EV is for us. However changing from a Jeep to an (albeit smaller-hence we are considering a RAV4 EV) BMW i3 REX for daily commutes - we have seen a significant change in the monthly fuel usage. Going from 300 miles on 18 gallons~$41, to 300 miles on 57KW ~$7.12 ($0.125/kwh) -- For the RAV4 EV - it should be roughly 300 miles on 114kw ~$14.25.
Having the JdeMo would be nice, however, if traveling on longer trips we could fall back on the i3 REX or the Guzzler Jeep.


Christopher Castagne wrote:
Resale Value: We may migrate in about 4 yrs - how well do you think this vehicle will hold its value? Anyone want o hazard a guess as to how much these will sell for then?


This is a sticking point for us as well. In 4 years, its really hard to say how well this vehicle will fair on value - By 2020 it is being projected that there should be several SUVs/Crossovers that can do between 200-300 miles per charge starting at 40K. With this in mind, assuming the general mentality of range anxiety doesn't change, and nothing improves as far as support for this vehicle - it doesn't look great.

Also I am assuming you live in California? If you move out of state, getting service on the Rav4 EV may be a pain (even under Platinum care). Toyota will dispatch certified techs to your nearest dealer, however this just makes things complicated. I think the best sum up from a fellow forum member of what the Rav4 EV is, went something like: You will be happy, If you keep in mind its a "Project Car" - a compromise between Toyota and Tesla, that neither want to take ownership of. Just be prepared with a backup car when it needs to go in for repair (that can take weeks)


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 Post subject: Re: Financial Considerations -warranty, charge cost, resale
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 7:48 am
Posts: 17
Thanks for the feedback guys. BTW I left out the mileage of the dealership car - it's also 24k so unless it's past the. 36 months it should qualify for the new car warranty.

As far as resale value, let me put it this way - if I can resell it for close to what I pay minus what I saved in fuel costs I'll be pretty happy! We have a very unique rental situation (my employer provides housing on site, utilities are included because basically the domestic electricity and water usage of a small family is a drop in the bucket compared to the total usage of the site), the main concern the property management had was about load, he was wondering if they'd have to run a whole new circuit (because it might trip the breaker in the garage)....

Back to costs/ resale: let me put it this way, what price do u think I could get for a 2014 Rav4 with about 55k miles and an intact warranty (it is transferable once!) up to 100k miles, in the year 2020? Is $13k too much to hope for?


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 Post subject: Re: Financial Considerations -warranty, charge cost, resale
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:07 pm
Posts: 47
Location: River Pines, CA
I'm only giving my opinion on the resale value based on purchasing an original 2011 Leaf and selling in 2016. I traded in @ $4,750 could have sold easily at retail for $6,000-$6,800. Factors for quick sale battery degradation and commute distance. I took my loss and got into the RAV4 EV because I needed to get to work after a move further than driving distance.

I'd say after the current/new models are a few years older (Volt 2.0, Bolt, Leaf 1.0 (15-17s) and 2.0), it would probably be more realistic to expect to get maybe $9,000-$11,500 for a higher mileage RAV4, if the battery is still in good standing in 2020. For me I am hoping for something like this but only because I had the battery replaced at 73,100 miles and potentially will have quick charge capability.

I'd expect less and plan accordingly but ICE compact SUVs do hold value based on utility but I don't see that carrying over to EV models. One thing hurting EVs are the notion of having to replace a battery and the cost to do so. A Leaf currently still costs $6,000 to replace its battery. Which is at a cost of $250 per kWh. Costs are expected to be around $100 per KWh in 2020 maybe less but it may be difficult to find a reputable shop to do the work for that plus labor in 2020.

I think its like any car buy it for use and function now and enjoy it if it holds value great, if it doesn't move on and take the loss. We will have better technology and lower replacement if you decide to keep it but at this time its still very early to predict what the value these cars hold in 3-4 years.

_________________
13 RavEV: 2263 Miles: 120,000 and counting w/ JdeMO


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 Post subject: Re: Financial Considerations -warranty, charge cost, resale
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:59 pm
Posts: 11
I wrote on Apr 18th
Quote:
I don't know much about CarMax, but I don't think you can get a Toyota warranty from them. I'd stick with the dealer if you want to get a Toyota warranty. Unless you're wealthy enough you can afford to take a huge lose if something goes wrong, you're going to want the get a Toyota Warranty. Also, be sure you know what warranty your getting. I'm still waiting on my warranty paperwork from Toyota for 8yr, 100K miles TPW. After doing some more reading, it sound like they are pretty strict on the 3year eligibility for the TPW, so I'm expecting its taking longer because I'm going to get denied. As it was a sticking point in negotiations, the salesman told me they actually called Toyota and verified it was still eligible when they sold me a TPW. The vehicle was just a couple months over 3 years from original lease date when I bought it. Either way, I'll have to wait and see how this pans out. I wish I would have done just a little more homework on this part.


I just wanted to update that I did receive my approved Toyota Platinum Warranty paperwork yesterday.


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 Post subject: Re: Financial Considerations -warranty, charge cost, resale
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 7:48 am
Posts: 17
Congrats! I'm still trying to locate a vehicle that hits all our criteria. How much did you pay for your TPW? I'm trying to get one from Troy Dietrich (toyota Greenfield) as others have posted on this forum but never catching him in office for some reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Financial Considerations -warranty, charge cost, resale
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:59 pm
Posts: 11
Quote:
How much did you pay for your TPW?


I paid $2200 for $0d/96mth/100K TPW. I got a couple other quotes from local dealers that where as high as $2700 for the same.

I did call and talked with Troy at Greenfeild. Before I talked with him I called 1-800-Go-Toyota and talked to a guy in the finance dept. to verify he was legit. After all I just got his name off some forum that I shall not name ;) ;). The gentleman at Go-Toyota knew exactly who Troy was the second I mentioned him, so he must sell a lot of TPWs.

Troy seemed quite straight forward and honest to me. Unfortunately, the vehicle I was looking at was just over 36 months old and he said he would not sell me a warranty and that they are pretty strict with the 36 month rule. At this point I decided to should stick with the dealer I was buying form.


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