Pre-Owned RAV4 EV

I've been thinking about trading my 07 Fj Cruiser in on a RAV4 EV. Carlsbad Toyota has used RAV4 EV with 3,300 miles on sale for $38,988. I offered $30,000...and they agreed! :shock:
OMG! When I called the dealership the salesman didn't know anything about EV's. They even offered to drop the price to $29,500!
What do you think?
Should I make the long drive from Northern California to Carlsbad to grab this deal?

http://www.toyotacarlsbad.com/j/i/3...ails-Used/White_2012_Toyota_RAV4_EV_Base.html

You should be able to buy a new one for that price. With the Toyota $10k discount, the government $10k (assuming you have enough tax liability), and the $2-3k the dealers are offering off MSRP that brings you right into the $28k range, plus you get 0% financing.

This is only a good deal if you don't qualify for 0% financing, want to pay cash, or don't want to wait for the government rebates. Would also be a good deal if you were out of state. Funny to see a used one already.

jspearman said:

This is only a good deal if you don't qualify for 0% financing, want to pay cash, or don't want to wait for the government rebates. Would also be a good deal if you were out of state. Funny to see a used one already.

Click to expand...

Maybe they traded it in and got a new Rav4 EV with 0% plus the $7500 incentive again, and $10,000 Toyota cash, and another $2500 state rebate (however, their original rebate would have to be prorated for the portion unused during 36 months).

This vehicle is a trade in from a customer that trades in his vehicles every 3 months. Troy Past is the salesman that seems to know all the details. He does not think that the car has claimed any rebates or tax credits but everything I know states that it would not matter, only the first owner is eligible regardless.

Given what the new one's go for, I think they are going to have a hard time moving this one (at least until the incentives end). If you were $51k MSRP-$10k toyota-$2500 state-$7500 fed tax credit = $31k + 0% interest. If you get something off sticker, you are even less than that. Even at $29,500 and say 1.9% interest, my math says you would be paying about $31k for the used one. That makes the used one about the same if not more than new (provided you could take advantage of all rebates/credits, etc)

Darren...thanks for calling the Dealership and finding out the details. What kind of "rich" nut trades in a vehicle every 3 months?

The kids and I are driving down to SoCal at the end of the month for Spring Break (Disneyland & Legoland), if the Rav4 Ev is still available maybe we will make another wild offer and see what happens.

I'm having the hardest time getting dealers in NorCal to even talk to me. Most of them don't even know the factory incentive were extended to April 1st. Toyota of Walnut Creek is the worst! Very rude. The best dealerships seem to be in Sacramento...at least they return my phone calls.

Anyway...if you hear of anymore pre-owned Rav4 Ev's let me know. Thanks :|

Any dealer in SoCal will gladly talk to you. Even with the $10k here, there still seems to be a lot of them on the lots. I know Tony posted a list of dealer contacts here. http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=210&start=40 and I am sure any of them would talk with you. There is also Dianne at Carson Toyota in LA (I know at one point she claimed she had 15 RAV4 EV's).

Good luck!

Hoosier said:

Darren...thanks for calling the Dealership and finding out the details. What kind of "rich" nut trades in a vehicle every 3 months?

Click to expand...

New car smell addiction? Causes cancer I hear so you are better off buying used anyway.

Give Folsom Lake Toyota a call. Ask for Ben. They sold me mine for $39,988 plus tax and license. Subtract the $2500 CARB rebate and the $7500 federal tax credit and your looking at roughly 34,000 out the door.

reeler said:

Hoosier said:

Darren...thanks for calling the Dealership and finding out the details. What kind of "rich" nut trades in a vehicle every 3 months?

Click to expand...

New car smell addiction? Causes cancer I hear so you are better off buying used anyway.

Click to expand...

The story I was told was a retired guy who sold his company and plans on spending it all before he leaves this life.

jspearman said:

This is only a good deal if you don't qualify for 0% financing, want to pay cash, or don't want to wait for the government rebates. Would also be a good deal if you were out of state.

Click to expand...

Yep. Makes 0 sense for a CA resident to pay the $ that the OP mentions for a used one. Buy a new one for that $ w/0% financing.

Hope this isn't against the rules, but Dianne in So Cal (http://priuschat.com/threads/diannes-rav4-ev-thread-for-deals-on-the-2012-evs.120657/#post-1749063) has some. People have already mentioned the $10K in So Cal Toyota incentives along another $10K worth of Federal tax credit and CVRP. I've never met her nor dealt w/her though. Folks on Priuschat seem to like her.

I bought my 06 Prius from Toyota Sunnyvale in 06 and had a good buying experience. I wouldn't hesitate to shop there again but I dunno if they have any Rav4 EVs in stock. If you buy from Piercey Toyota, be prepared for very high pressure F&I sales tactics. I witnessed it firsthand when I helped a friend buy an '11 Prius back at end of 2011. They were willing to give her a better price than Toyota Sunnyvale...

If I were in Nor Cal and wanted a Rav4 EV, I'd either get a Nor Cal dealer to come down a bit more on price or go w/a So Cal dealer and get it shipped.

Thank you for all the great advice. I'm in no hurry to buy so I will probably keep shopping around. Who knows...maybe the factory incentives will be up to $15,000 by Summer?

Plus...I am a little concerned about my Blink EVSE not being able to handle the RAV4 EV. :?

The RAV4 EV is an AWESOME car!!! Someday.....

If anyone is interested...I received an email from Carsbad Toyota today. The Rav4 Ev is still available.

The email came with a warning though....

"One thing I do want to mention to you. Call your local Toyota dealership to see if they service the Rav4 EV. Reason for this there are only 26 dealerships in the United States that can service those."

I've been warned... :lol:

cwerdna said:

jspearman said:

This is only a good deal if you don't qualify for 0% financing, want to pay cash, or don't want to wait for the government rebates. Would also be a good deal if you were out of state.

Click to expand...

Yep. Makes 0 sense for a CA resident to pay the $ that the OP mentions for a used one. Buy a new one for that $ w/0% financing.

Click to expand...

I can think of a couple other benefits. Sales tax would be less (at 9%, maybe about $1800 less). You can also take advantage of the EVSE credit in the same tax year as you buy an EV, which can be up to another $1000, assuming it's still in effect for 2013. You also don't have to worry about paying back the CVRP $2500 rebate if you get rid of it within the next three years. I know that's come back to bite some LEAF owners who wanted to trade up to a 2013.

mikeEmike said:

cwerdna said:

jspearman said:

This is only a good deal if you don't qualify for 0% financing, want to pay cash, or don't want to wait for the government rebates. Would also be a good deal if you were out of state.

Click to expand...

Yep. Makes 0 sense for a CA resident to pay the $ that the OP mentions for a used one. Buy a new one for that $ w/0% financing.

Click to expand...

I can think of a couple other benefits. Sales tax would be less (at 9%, maybe about $1800 less). You can also take advantage of the EVSE credit in the same tax year as you buy an EV, which can be up to another $1000, assuming it's still in effect for 2013. You also don't have to worry about paying back the CVRP $2500 rebate if you get rid of it within the next three years. I know that's come back to bite some LEAF owners who wanted to trade up to a 2013.

Click to expand...

You are correct about the tax being less.

Isn't the EVSE credit 30% of what you spend so you would have to spend over $3k to get $1k tax credit?

I agree that no having to worry about having to payback of the CVRP is definitely nice if the dealer discounts the used one by the $2500 amount.

Darren said:

You are correct about the tax being less.

Isn't the EVSE credit 30% of what you spend so you would have to spend over $3k to get $1k tax credit?

I agree that no having to worry about having to payback of the CVRP is definitely nice if the dealer discounts the used one by the $2500 amount.

Click to expand...

Yes, you would have to spend over $3000 on the EVSE installation. I actually would have qualified for the entire $1000 when I installed my EVSE last year because I had to upgrade my service panel in order to safely install the EVSE. Unfortunately, when I decided to install it (Sept of 2012), the EVSE tax credit was not available at that time. It was reinstated for 2012 on Jan 1, 2013, but that didn't do me any good because I already installed the EVSE in the same year I bought my LEAF. If I had known that was going to happen, I would have waited until Jan 2013 to install the EVSE, and got by for four months on L1.

Not having the worry about qualifying for the federal tax credit is another added bonus. I know a lot of LEAF buyers unexpectedly either didn't get the full amount (or in the worst case nothing at all!), or they had problems with the IRS holding their tax refunds for an unreasonable amount of time in order to confirm the taxpayer legitimately qualified for the EV tax credit.

A salesperson told me that the RAV4 EV at Toyota Carlsbad sold today. Did anyone here buy it and how much did you pay?

I have been in touch with them several times and after a couple weeks the salesman called me back yesterday to see if my original offer was still on the table. I said yes... He was going to go to the manager and see where things were and what could be done. Going to call today and see what happened. I do see where they lowered the price from $38,988 to $31,988.

I do have reservations as to how the battery was cared for... the salesman said I should see around 75 miles on a standard charge and 90-100 on an extended charge. I rented one from Hamer Toyota last month and it gave me 93 mi on a standard 80% charge. He said that to just leave it on max range charge all the time and get the max range each time. I have a feeling he told the original owner this when he first sold it as new. The pix on the dealer site shows full charge bars with 75 mi showing. If the car was charged max range each time over 3300 mi since new, do you guys think the battery could have been reduced in overall life? If I did end up getting it I was going to have the service dept do a health ck on the battery before I would finalize the deal.

If I missed the deal no big deal as I was looking at new again after not hearing back on the used one for a week or two.

AvLegends said:

I have been in touch with them several times and after a couple weeks the salesman called me back yesterday to see if my original offer was still on the table. I said yes... He was going to go to the manager and see where things were and what could be done. Going to call today and see what happened. I do see where they lowered the price from $38,988 to $31,988.

I do have reservations as to how the battery was cared for... the salesman said I should see around 75 miles on a standard charge and 90-100 on an extended charge. I rented one from Hamer Toyota last month and it gave me 93 mi on a standard 80% charge. He said that to just leave it on max range charge all the time and get the max range each time. I have a feeling he told the original owner this when he first sold it as new. The pix on the dealer site shows full charge bars with 75 mi showing. If the car was charged max range each time over 3300 mi since new, do you guys think the battery could have been reduced in overall life? If I did end up getting it I was going to have the service dept do a health ck on the battery before I would finalize the deal.

If I missed the deal no big deal as I was looking at new again after not hearing back on the used one for a week or two.

Click to expand...

If it were me, no way. First of all, you can get a brand new one for likely around $28k, with 5-yr 0% financing. Second, if it's showing 75 mi at 100%, something is wrong. It could be like you guessed, the first owner ruined the battery by using in extended all the time, or there might be a simpler explanation - like the range calculation needs to be reset after sitting in the lot so long with the battery draining (assuming they did not restore the factory-new pin that prevents drainage to the auto-lock, interior lights, and microphone circuits). I don't know enough about how the thing computes it's range, but unless you can find a verifiable explanation that puts your NON-extended range back up to around 100mi, you're risking buying a big piece of garbage for more money than an awesome new car would cost.

Except for Tesla with "rated range", none of the car makers which display a Guess O Meter (GOM) range value will give you much indication of battery capacity.

The ones sitting on a dealer's lot would be the worst. Imagine taking a 3 mile test drive, accelerating briskly, and generally getting poor economy. Then, sitting in the car for an hour talking about it with the air conditioning running.

The economy would be horrendous for that "trip", hence the GOM will show a really low value even when fully charged. Note how this gives you NO IDEA what the battery capacity is.

The same would be true if reversed. The previous driver went down hill at 20mph for 20 miles. The economy would be really high, hence the GOM would show a really high value, even if the battery were significantly degraded.

If you are really worried about capacity, write in the contract that a capacity test be performed with the values given to you (with some value as acceptable to you) or do a basic range test. I can help you with the latter.

On the RAV4, for a range test, charge it up to 100% and reset the economy meter and both trip odometers. Drive it to near dead (preferably to Very Low Battery which is the last fuel bar segment). Note how many miles driven total, how many miles past VLB, and what the economy is.

A fully charged non-degraded battery that is NOT cooled at all from room temperature will provide 41.8kWh usable, therefore:

Economy * (41.8 - calculated unused kWh) = miles traveled.

The discrepancy between actual miles traveled and calculated miles is a good approximation of battery capacity. I've done these types of tests on the LEAF and Rav4 many times.