RavEV or Leaf

Hello-

First off, a big thanks to all that have shared on this forum. It's been very helpful to go through it and learn more about the RAVEV.

I am trying to decide between a Leaf and RAVEV, but it looks like I'll have to see what Toyota does with the incentive program after today. If it goes away, that might make up my mind.

In the meantime, I've noticed that a few of you were previous Leaf owners and I am wondering if you'd share why you made the switch. Also, the CA $7500 tax credit: Toyota claims it? Or the buyer can clam it? I am confused about that.

I live on the central coast and my commute is about 18 miles round trip, though I do make trips north and south that are further.

Thanks again for all the info.

DB

I own both a leaf and the Rav and I think you'll be happy with either. I think you should figure out what will work best for your needs. The leaf is a well thought out dependable electric car. The rav has more power, range, and utility. I like driving both but my grin is bigger when driving the rav.

Toyota rightly claims the $7500 tax credit on a lease, but what they don't do is pass that credit on to the leasee as a capitalization reduction. Every other known EV brand does pass through the credit EXCEPT Toyota.

Does Toyota not pass on the $7500 if you buy as well as lease?

Thanks-

DB

shade said:

Does Toyota not pass on the $7500 if you buy as well as lease?

Thanks-

DB

Click to expand...

The "owner" gets the tax credit. In a Rav4 lease, that's Toyota as the owner. If you buy the car, your are the owner and eligible for the credit.

Please read:

www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8936.pdf

I have one of each.... well, I will in a few hours. Delivery of RAV4 EV to Washington state this afternoon.

You WILL be happy with either. The Nissan lease deals are excellent, but so is the $10,000 cash, 0% on the RAV4 EV. The quick charge level 3 on the Leaf is very nice, but the 9.6 Kwh 240V at home is of higher value to me. Our local level 3 public infrastructure is considered advanced compared to other areas of the country, yet it is failing. It will get worse before it gets better. Crowded, Iced, broken, vandalized. It will be years before infrastructure catches up with demand. The golden age of free public charging has already come and gone. AV and Blink, please start charging fees to help build a larger reliable network. That is were the RAV4 EV shines. With its range increase, I can bypass the Level 3 stations altogether for my longer trips.

HD172 said:

I own both a leaf and the Rav and I think you'll be happy with either. I think you should figure out what will work best for your needs. The leaf is a well thought out dependable electric car. The rav has more power, range, and utility. I like driving both but my grin is bigger when driving the rav.

Click to expand...

Ditto!

Everything points to the Rav4ev until you look at your electric bill.... especially with the 2013 Leaf.

We have both the Rav4EV and the LEAF as well.

The LEAF is a more comfortable and luxurious in terms of noise, ride quality, and a very well thought out EV, built from the ground up. Don't listen to anyone who thinks it is just a Nissan Versa with EV components. Without the engine, you would hear all the creaks and groans from a conventional gasser. In the LEAF, fit and finish is well built to reduce any noise that would normally not be necessary, so in a sense, it is built "like" a luxury car (IMHO). Esp. in 2013 LEAF, a lot of early adoptors' (2011-12) inputs were incorporated, and much improved. PRICE is unbeatable for anyone with 50 miles range requirement. We have had absolutely ZERO complaints about our LEAF, knowing it's range limitation.

The Rav4EV greatest plus is it's utility, in the conventional sense, but also because of the real world 100+ mile range. In extended range and somewhat conservative driving, I can get 140 miles of utility out of it. That's practically twice the range of the LEAF, and then some. It is less efficient, which will show up on your electric bill, but still less in operating cost than a Prius, but with acceleration and fun of a Tesla.

Our current and ONLY gripe with the Rav4EV is perhaps the built quality of the Tesla Motor/Tranny assembly. We test drove 3 Rav4EV and ended up buying the last one we test drove because of motor "HUM" noise (that can be heard above wind and road noise) was the least. The one we bought turns out to still have the "HUM" (although lesser in extent than the previous 2) at 65mph freeway speed. I've also test drove two other Rav4EVs in trying to identify whether this was "normal" for the Rav4EV, or just mine. I believe it is just mine as most on this forum do not hear it in theirs (except for two: see these thread here http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=251 and here http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=203)

I'm currently trying to escalate this issue with Toyota, and will update this forum on the my experience in the days to come. Hopefully I can update this thread to say I have ZERO complaints with the Rav4EV as well!

Thanks everyone.

I am set to test drive a RAV4EV this Friday. I am looking forward to it.

It seems like with Toyota keeping the $7500 credit, it is better to buy the Rav instead of lease.

It also sounds like the bigger battery pack shows up on the electricity bill vs. the Leaf's smaller battery.

Hearing real world examples of people getting 140 miles is definitely motivating. I don't have a large daily commute, the Leaf would be totally fine, but I like the idea of a bit more range to be able to use the Rav even for local adventures on weekends.

DB

Get both!

We leased a Leaf 2 weeks ago (wife fell in-love with it), now looking forward to the Rav4EV that's going to delivered hopefully by Monday next week, can't wait! Never going back to regular ICE vehicles again, we are now committed to EVs & PHEVs only

My wife still has a commute that makes the Prius a better choice for her (unless we could afford a Tesla), but I like the "both" idea.

One question has come to mind, however. One could use a public charger with the RAVEV correct? Someone mentioned that with the Toyota 10Kw on board charger, that meant that public chargers would be so slow, it wouldn't be worth using.

I'm loving my Rav4 EV so far. Obviously more cargo space and range (100 miles vs 75 miles) compared to a Leaf.

The ONE thing that the Leaf has on the Rav4 EV is the Level 3 quick charger port option. If you get the top of the line Leaf, you can theoretically charge the battery up to 80% in 30 min. The Rav4 EV only has a Level 2 charger and doesn't have an option for the Level 3. I was at the local community college, where they had free Level 3 quick chargers but $1/hr Level 2 Blink chargers, and envious of a Leaf driver taking advantage of the free L3 charging!

shade said:

One could use a public charger with the RAVEV correct? Someone mentioned that with the Toyota 10Kw on board charger, that meant that public chargers would be so slow, it wouldn't be worth using.

Click to expand...

Yes, you can use any J1772 public charger. Most public ones are 30 amps, with varying voltage.

At 30 amps, the following applies:

Power -- Voltage -- at 88% efficiency into the battery

7.5kW ---- 250 ---- 6.6kW
7.2kW ---- 240 ---- 6.3kW
6.9kW ---- 230 ---- 6.1kW
6.2kW ---- 208 ---- 5.5kW (typical voltage at a public charge station in North America)
6.0kW ---- 200 ---- 5.3kW


Rav4's Tesla charger is 40 amps. Therefore, the "10kW" charger with 40 amp service is:

Power -- Voltage -- at 88% efficiency into the battery

11kW ---- 277 ---- 9.7kW (the maximum voltage that the charger can accept)
10kW ---- 250 ---- 8.8kW (hey, it just happened to be 10kW)
9.6kW --- 240 ---- 8.4kW (typical residential power in North America)
9.2kW --- 230 ---- 8.1kW (typical voltage in the rest of the world)
8.3kW --- 208 ---- 7.3kW (typical voltage at a public charge station in North America)
8.0kW --- 200 ---- 7.0kW (typical voltage in Japan)


At a steady 65mph on level, no wind roadways without heater use, the car will get 3.4 miles per kWh economy, therefore public charging will likely provide 5.5kW into the battery for 18.7 miles per hour charging. At home, that will likely be 8.8kW for 28.5 miles per hour charging.

I get 2.7 miles per kWh economy around town, therefore 14.8 miles per hour of public charging, and 22.7 miles from home charging.

Miles Gained per Hour Charging
Where ---- City Drive ----- 65mph

Public ---- 14.8 miles ----- 18.7 miles
Home ---- 22.7 miles ----- 28.5 miles

I never had a LEAF, but do have a VOLT which is my daily commuter car, and occasionally used for trips well over 100 miles. Except for its rather smallish size and far less cargo space, I think the VOLT does an admirable job as an EV for people that have a relatively short commute. Mine is about 12 miles R/T, so I get 4 full days of driving my VOLT between charges. I get an avg of about 45 miles of electric range with it. Since last August, I accumulated about 3000 miles and of that 80% has been driven on the battery, saving tons of money at the gas pump.

The VOLT stickers for $10k less than the RAV4 EV, but with the current deep discounting on the latter, they are just about the same purchase price. I think the VOLT still has the advantage in a lease. Nevertheless, the RAV4 EV has a lot more B4B all other things being equal.

Interestingly enough, they both have almost identical HP and Torque ratings, and they are both FWD vehicles. The RAV4 weighs considerably more, however, but there is absolutely no doubt it accelerates much more aggressively. I think this is because of the gearing; yet they both still have the exact same top speed of 100mph.

Bottom line, five passenger seats are better than 4, and zero to 60 in 6.8 seconds is faster than most other 5 seaters; certainly faster than ALL OTHER EVs below 75 grand in price! So, driving a RAV4 EV is like driving a Tesla sedan but without all the luxuriousness, and at nearly half the price, because being a Toyota, there is no way to visually flaunt the Tesla pedigree.

You can "sort of lease" the Tesla if you need the range. They promised to buy back your Tesla S 3 years later.

again, why not both? =)