Replace horn with REAL horn

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TonyWilliams

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
4,131
Location
San Diego county, California USA
I changed the horns out for a more robust version that Feature steel housing and plastic projector, can be mounted singly or as duals (I highly recommend a high and a low dual install) at 130 dB:

FIAMM 72112 Low Note (420hz) Freeway Blaster Horn

http://www.fiamm.com/Horns-F-Freeway-Blaster-Low-Note-Zone-21-typeLBU84L117A127-Prod-956-561

FIAMM 72102 High Note (500hz) Freeway Blaster Horn

http://www.fiamm.com/Horns-E-Freeway-Blaster-High-Note-Zone-21-typeLBU84L117A127-Prod-957-561

Many people are happy with the compact "El Grande" model (frequency
405-485):

http://www.fiamm.com/Horns-El-Grande-Twin---P-N-74100-Twin-Electric-Horns-Zone-21-typeLBU84L110A127-Prod-997-561


It's super easy to do. Just remove the plastic cover over the radiator (pop the center plastic pins in to loosen the fasteners). Page 356 in the owner's manual tells you how to remove the motor compartment cover. Then remove the two 12mm hex head bolts that hold the radiator in.

Remove the top radiator brackets (they just slide up, off the radiator) and push the radiator assembly towards the windshield. You'll see the two horns on the driver's side, mounted high, in front of the radiator. You'll need a 12mm hex head wrench to remove the hangars. If you want to "go for it", just remove the 10mm hex head nuts from the center of the horn and reuse the hangars.

Don't drop any bolts or nuts because you will have to remove the lower motor cover from the bottom of the car to retrieve them. It's not hard, but you have to crawl under the car with a 10mm socket and short extension, and a flat screw driver.

Pictured is the stock Low tone horn (420 hz) with the replacement Fiamm horn. The high tone horn looks the same (500 hz), but is not pictured:

0E040997-A0F0-4EE5-8A39-15FF40C9F769-11190-0000063115064CEF.jpg
 
Did you hook up the relay or just replace the horns? This is a great idea. The OEM horns sounds like the one on a kid's bike.
 
Anyone have a video of how to do this? I'm not confident in my ability to do anything inside a car! (I didn't even own one until I was 29 since I could walk everywhere at the time.) I bought the Fiamm El Grande horn to replace the Rav4 EV's OEM children's horn.
 
Blastphemy said:
Anyone have a video of how to do this? I'm not confident in my ability to do anything inside a car! (I didn't even own one until I was 29 since I could walk everywhere at the time.) I bought the Fiamm El Grande horn to replace the Rav4 EV's OEM children's horn.

Sorry, no video. It's really as simple as removing the black plastic cover over the the radiator. The horns are in front of the radiator on the driver's side. Unplug one wire and one bolt per horn.

It's so simple that I'll venture to say that it's virtually impossible to screw up!!!

Page 356 in the owner's manual tells you how to remove the motor compartment cover.
 
I bought the Fiamm El Grande Twin (P/N: 74100) to replace the Rav4EV OEM kid's horn. Not wanting to take any chances, I brought it with me to the dealership (my scheduled 5,000-mile free service) for the technician to install for me ($110/hr labor). However, the service department refused to install, saying (1) the dealership policy is to not install aftermarket parts and (2) installing it would void the warranty.

So I took it to an auto shop I used previously after an accident, and the mechanic quoted me $200 to replace the horn. But he also said that installing the horn would void the warranty, and that he couldn't be sure - this being an electric car - that the voltage (or whatever measurement) wouldn't fry the new horn or provide adequate power. He was also concerned about getting fried by touching the wrong thing.

I obviously don't want to void the warranty, and since I had a "Check EV System" warning appear last week (that didn't register a code or leave any trace of a problem that Toyota could find), I'm wary about changing any electronic component.

Thoughts, anyone?
 
Blastphemy said:
Thoughts, anyone?

That is a WHOLE lot of uninformed BS.

I will do it for you in about 15 minutes for free. Actually, we can have a "horn clinic" at our next meeting.

For the "warranty" issues, please study the link below. Obviously, the HORN part of the warranty would not apply, and if the horn were to BLOW UP the car and kill innocent women and children at a church, sure, you bought all that. The problem is that it isn't going to do any of those things:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
 
TonyWilliams said:
For the "warranty" issues, please study the link below. Obviously, the HORN part of the warranty would not apply, and if the horn were to BLOW UP the car and kill innocent women and children at a church, sure, you bought all that. The problem is that it isn't going to do any of those things:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
FYI, 15 U.S.C. § 2302(c) states:

Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by CommissionNo warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.


However, that's not the only thing one must consult; there's also 16 CFR Part 700 - the FTC's official interpretations of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, not to mention potential volumes of existing case law.

While replacing the horn may seem innocuous, it involves taking apart a portion of the front of the vehicle, which could void certain parts of the warranty. Also, since the entire car is electric, Toyota might actually be able to support a denial under the argument that it only takes one change to the electrical system to void the warranty on the entire electrical system.

It's like the classic case of a car owner never changing the oil - if one doesn't follow the manufacturer's instructions, failure to change the oil will void the warranty on the entire transmission and engine. It also applies to someone who puts diesel in a gas engine and thereby destroys the engine - the warranty will not cover that, nor any future problems with the engine/transmission.
 
Blastphemy said:
While replacing the horn may [i said:
seem[/i] innocuous, it involves taking apart a portion of the front of the vehicle, which could void certain parts of the warranty. Also, since the entire car is electric, Toyota might actually be able to support a denial under the argument that it only takes one change to the electrical system to void the warranty on the entire electrical system.


Ya, ok. I think this is a stretch beyond stretches, but you seem convinced. Removing a plastic cover "voids the warranty" is just crazy.

Good luck.
 
TonyWilliams said:
Ya, ok. I think this is a stretch beyond stretches, but you seem convinced. Removing a plastic cover "voids the warranty" is just crazy. Good luck.
Not convinced; just looking for a definitive rebuttal. Warranties are written by lawyers, not message board posters. So despite it seeming like your argument is valid, without a verified legal opinion, I'm not going to jeopardize my warranty. I really want to replace that OEM kid's horn, but I'd just like to see some evidence that other customers of any brand of electric vehicle have made modifications, been challenged by the dealership on a warranty claim, and prevailed against the dealership despite the mods. I really don't want to be the test case!
 
The way I see it, it's not too different from computers: If you buy a computer from a manufacturer, then upgrade it with third party memory, you should take it out and put in the stock memory configuration before sending it in for a diagnostic or warranty claim. 90% of the time, they won't care if you did an upgrade, even if you just left it in there; even for manufacturers that do not support any upgrades whatsoever.

Could something go wrong if you try to install the horn yourself? of course there's always a greater possibility versus doing absolutely nothing. with my luck, i'll probably just stare at it and it will catch fire.

14958_5_full.jpg


However, since according to Tony, Toyota provides instructions on how to remove the motor compartment cover. if they really didn't want you digging around in there with the threat of voiding your warranty, they probably wouldn't include that section in the manual.

That said, if you have another car that you can practice on to get more comfortable with the process, that's something to try doing first to decide if it is for you. Figure out how to install it and also how to put your OEM horn back in before sending it in for servicing. Tony showed us at the meet this past weekend how to do it and it really couldn't be simpler. and if you're still not comfortable doing that and don't want to fork out $200 to have a "warranty voiding professional" installation, (and i have no idea who would even think of doing that), then looks like you'll just have to put up with the toy horn.
 
Where are these meetings? I'm in Northridge, so my Rav4 EV wouldn't make it all the way to San Diego unless I drove like a hypermiler!

Did anyone take photos of the process at this meeting where Tony showed how to replace the horn? The close-up photo in the first post of this thread isn't very helpful, unfortunately. I'd love to give this a shot if it's just taking off a piece of plastic and unhooking the OEM horn. Just want to see the process before I touch my own car.

I found this photo online, but I don't know if it's accurate since it's an older ICE Rav4:

horns-2011.jpg
 
I wish I would have taken some photos, but the horn location looks about right on the posting you put. I'm from Gardena and made it to Poway with about 18 miles to spare driving on cruise control at 66 mph 95% of the way and no climate control). I did much better on the way back and had over 30 miles to spare. from northridge is cutting it close though, but I think you can do it if you have a full battery and did some light runzoni downhill. :)
 
Blastphemy said:
TonyWilliams said:
Ya, ok. I think this is a stretch beyond stretches, but you seem convinced. Removing a plastic cover "voids the warranty" is just crazy. Good luck.
Not convinced; just looking for a definitive rebuttal. Warranties are written by lawyers, not message board posters. So despite it seeming like your argument is valid, without a verified legal opinion, I'm not going to jeopardize my warranty. I really want to replace that OEM kid's horn, but I'd just like to see some evidence that other customers of any brand of electric vehicle have made modifications, been challenged by the dealership on a warranty claim, and prevailed against the dealership despite the mods. I really don't want to be the test case!

My car has the horn mod. Guess what? Toyota and Tesla have replaced the entire motor / inverter / gearbox assembly at great warranty cost to them. They also dropped the entire battery assembly when they replaced my charge port under warranty. These were all done at no cost to me, in addition to other warranty claims and all service.

There are a BAZILLION warranty claims that are challenged, and TONS of case law on it. There are long standing laws all for your review. You're operating from fear, and I completely understand that reaction. Get educated and eliminate the fear.

I do not play lawyer on the interent. No client / attorney relationship has been established.
 
Blastphemy said:
I found this photo online, but I don't know if it's accurate since it's an older ICE Rav4:

It is exactly accurate. The two round horns are on the drivers side of the car as the photo depicts. I recommend removing both the plastic cover and the two bolts that hold the top of the radiator. That way, you can push that a few inches toward the motor assembly and make it easier to get your hand in there to remove the one wire and one bolt per horn.
 
I corresponded with the service manager at my dealership via e-mail, and he conceded in writing that replacing the horn does not void the factory warranty. It only voids anything that the aftermarket part causes to break either during installation or operation (which is unlikely for a low voltage horn).

So now I'm good to go - just gotta figure out how to do it and get up the nerve to stick my hands where Toyota would prefer I don't :D
 
Blastphemy said:
I corresponded with the service manager at my dealership via e-mail, and he conceded in writing that replacing the horn does not void the factory warranty. It only voids anything that the aftermarket part causes to break either during installation or operation (which is unlikely for a low voltage horn).

So now I'm good to go...

So, in other words, exactly what the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act that I posted previously requires from the dealer / manufacturer.
 
TonyWilliams said:
So, in other words, exactly what the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act that I posted previously requires from the dealer / manufacturer.
No, he referenced another source; something in the California statutes.
 
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