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Looking at Cars.com I am seeing the most dealers I have ever seen with 10+ units in stock

Here is the data from Cars.com today sorted from least to most.
Code:
Auburn          1
Tustin          1
National City   1
Cerritos        2
Salinas         2
Santa Monica    2
Culver City     2
Manhattan Beach 2
Irvine          2
San Jose        3
Hollywood       3
Marina Del Rey  3
Buena Park      3
Cathedral City  3
San Francisco   3
Carlsbad        4
Davis           4
Long Beach      4
Hayward         5
El Monte        6
Redwood City    7
Richmond        8
Oakland         8
Berkeley        9
Fremont         9
Santa Rosa      10
Roseville       10
Mission Hills   10
Walnut Creek    11
Palo Alto       12
Folsom          13
Alhambra        24
Carson          26
Sunnyvale       37
Excuse the use of "code" but it's the only way to get a monospace font to get the column to line up.

I don't think I believe the Alhambra number, just because they tend to have garbage data in their Cars.com entries. For example, they have 17 of the 24 cars listed with a color of "Dark Charcoal". All of those may be bogus.
I think Toyota is pushing the final units out of the factory and making the dealers deal with it. Dianne is probably the only one capable of moving more than 10 per month. Sunnyvale has been building up that inventory for some weeks now. The problem they face up here is that they have $1,000 less lease cash from Toyota. I never understood why Toyota had different deals on this car in Northern and Southern California.
 
those #'s are not quite right, and mine's really skewed. I am down to 19 with 5 of those 19 already pre-sold...
 
I can attest to pretty good deals to be had here in the bay area. It took quite a bit of work, patience, and luck, but I finally found a really good deal. Check the VIN numbers to see which ones have been on the dealer lots the longest. I leased VIN 2742 for $412/month +tax for 35 months with absolutely nothing down (I get to pocket the $2500 CVRP). This was for a Pearl White one, included Floor Mats, and had 30 miles on the odometer. It had been sitting on their lot since May it sounds like. They gave me close to $3500 off MSRP before the Toyota subvention cash of $17.5k (and yes, you CAN get the $17.5k incentive up here in Northern CA, I have no idea why it doesn't reflect that on Toyota's website).

So including taxes, which are 9% here in Contra Costa county, my total out of pocket is $449/month for 35 months. This is for the unlimited mileage lease with a residual of $18,426. They first told me I could not get a unlimited lease, but I had them call Toyota Finance and got it squared away. They also know next to nothing about these cars, and you really need to have done your homework before dealing with any of the bay area dealers I talked to.

I will say the best N. CA dealership I talked to was Folsom Lake. They couldn't match the $412/month+tax, the best I could get them to was $430/month+tax for the unlimited with nothing down. That's still a pretty good deal, but after all the work I put into it, I wanted the lowest price possible.

The WORST dealership experience I had was at Walnut Creek Toyota. Those guys are absolute scumbags and liars, and will tell you outright lies over the phone just to get you into their dealership. I thought I could just negotiate over the phone with them, then go in and sign the paperwork. Once I got there, all their numbers changed, they played dumb, then they started insisting I was a liar. Then they laughed in my face when I showed them other quotes. Highly insulting, dishonest, and one of the worst dealer experiences I've had in my life (and I've had MANY over 20 years since my first car purchase from a dealership). I would highly recommend staying far far away from them.

The deal I went with was at Hanlees Hilltop in Richmond. It was a pretty crappy experience with them at first because they too also messed up my quote that I had negotiated through email and over the phone. They called me right before I got to the dealership to sign and told me they messed up and wouldn't be able to lease it to me for what they quoted. In the end, they met me about halfway on it and it all worked out. Saving more than $50/month (35x$50=$1750) over the next three years compared to the other deals I was seeing, so it was worth it to me to shop around. Of course, YMMV.

I will say, I've been here on this forum (mostly as a lurker) since first test driving this car in 2012. I came close to buying one during spring 2013 when there was the $9800 Toyota cash and 0% financing. I'm an actuary, so I work with numbers and spreadsheets for a living. This deal is just a touch better than what I could have had during spring 2013, so I'm happy in the end.

I also have a Fit EV, and I will say I'm fairly disappointed with the range so far in the RAV4 EV compared to the Fit EV. In the Fit, if I drive conservatively, I can get 80 to 90 miles of range out of it fairly easy in the summer months. Driving conservatively gets me 4.7 to 5.0 miles/kwh. Whereas driving in sport mode, the worst I've seen is 3.2 miles/kwh. So far with the RAV4, it seems no matter how conservative I drive, I can't get better than 3.0 miles/kwh.
 
Firstly, that is an excellent deal you got. I'm sure some of us are rethinking our negotiation skills.

Secondly, we are consistently getting better mileage than the GOM, and averaging 3.3 miles/kWh, and that includes going from 500 feet to 1400 feet and back twice a day at 90-100oF. If you look at the Eco Dashboard on the Entunes mobile app you will see some real world numbers far better than what we get.

Thirdly, how many RAV4 EV's have members convinced other people to buy? I'm sure we can do a better job than most Toyota dealers. One test drive in Sport mode and people are hooked. Did everyone know they wanted the RAV4 before going near a dealership? Did anyone get talked into an EV by a dealer? Or did you have to convince the dealer to sell you one?

If you have a commute of < 80 miles per day (without extra charging), a second ICE car for long trips, and the ability to charge at 30 amps or more at home, then the RAV4 EV is definitely something to consider.

I wonder how many people are waiting for an ultimate great blowout sales deal on the final RAV4 EV's?
 
red_stripe05 said:
So far with the RAV4, it seems no matter how conservative I drive, I can't get better than 3.0 miles/kwh.
CONGRATS!!!

3.0 mpk has been my (minimum) cummulative average while driving conservatively most of the time, but with A/C on almost constantly this time of year in San Jose. My average range after a "regular" charge is right around 105 miles. During the cold season driving w/o A/C but otherwise the same, my range goes up about +5 more miles. If I hypermiled in earnest, I can get another +10 maybe to get the GoM to top out at nearly 120 miles after a standard charge. If I have been hypermiling and do an extended charge, 125 miles would be doable easily, but hypermiling in city traffic and even on the freeway is easier said than done. My wife gives me HELL every time! :lol:
 
Are you the new white RAV4 EV with Hanlee dealer license plate holders that was at Candlestick on Thursday night?

red_stripe05 said:
I can attest to pretty good deals to be had here in the bay area. It took quite a bit of work, patience, and luck, but I finally found a really good deal. Check the VIN numbers to see which ones have been on the dealer lots the longest. I leased VIN 2742 for $412/month +tax for 35 months with absolutely nothing down (I get to pocket the $2500 CVRP). This was for a Pearl White one, included Floor Mats, and had 30 miles on the odometer. It had been sitting on their lot since May it sounds like. They gave me close to $3500 off MSRP before the Toyota subvention cash of $17.5k (and yes, you CAN get the $17.5k incentive up here in Northern CA, I have no idea why it doesn't reflect that on Toyota's website).

So including taxes, which are 9% here in Contra Costa county, my total out of pocket is $449/month for 35 months. This is for the unlimited mileage lease with a residual of $18,426. They first told me I could not get a unlimited lease, but I had them call Toyota Finance and got it squared away. They also know next to nothing about these cars, and you really need to have done your homework before dealing with any of the bay area dealers I talked to.

I will say the best N. CA dealership I talked to was Folsom Lake. They couldn't match the $412/month+tax, the best I could get them to was $430/month+tax for the unlimited with nothing down. That's still a pretty good deal, but after all the work I put into it, I wanted the lowest price possible.

The WORST dealership experience I had was at Walnut Creek Toyota. Those guys are absolute scumbags and liars, and will tell you outright lies over the phone just to get you into their dealership. I thought I could just negotiate over the phone with them, then go in and sign the paperwork. Once I got there, all their numbers changed, they played dumb, then they started insisting I was a liar. Then they laughed in my face when I showed them other quotes. Highly insulting, dishonest, and one of the worst dealer experiences I've had in my life (and I've had MANY over 20 years since my first car purchase from a dealership). I would highly recommend staying far far away from them.

The deal I went with was at Hanlees Hilltop in Richmond. It was a pretty crappy experience with them at first because they too also messed up my quote that I had negotiated through email and over the phone. They called me right before I got to the dealership to sign and told me they messed up and wouldn't be able to lease it to me for what they quoted. In the end, they met me about halfway on it and it all worked out. Saving more than $50/month (35x$50=$1750) over the next three years compared to the other deals I was seeing, so it was worth it to me to shop around. Of course, YMMV.

I will say, I've been here on this forum (mostly as a lurker) since first test driving this car in 2012. I came close to buying one during spring 2013 when there was the $9800 Toyota cash and 0% financing. I'm an actuary, so I work with numbers and spreadsheets for a living. This deal is just a touch better than what I could have had during spring 2013, so I'm happy in the end.

I also have a Fit EV, and I will say I'm fairly disappointed with the range so far in the RAV4 EV compared to the Fit EV. In the Fit, if I drive conservatively, I can get 80 to 90 miles of range out of it fairly easy in the summer months. Driving conservatively gets me 4.7 to 5.0 miles/kwh. Whereas driving in sport mode, the worst I've seen is 3.2 miles/kwh. So far with the RAV4, it seems no matter how conservative I drive, I can't get better than 3.0 miles/kwh.
 
I also have a Fit EV, and I will say I'm fairly disappointed with the range so far in the RAV4 EV compared to the Fit EV. In the Fit, if I drive conservatively, I can get 80 to 90 miles of range out of it fairly easy in the summer months. Driving conservatively gets me 4.7 to 5.0 miles/kwh. Whereas driving in sport mode, the worst I've seen is 3.2 miles/kwh. So far with the RAV4, it seems no matter how conservative I drive, I can't get better than 3.0 miles/kwh.

We went from an ICE Fit to the RAV4 EV. To say that there's a substantial change in the size, comfort and cargo space from the Fit to the RAV is an understatement.

We also average 3.0 or 3.1m/kWh with the RAV4 EV (although I can see up to 4m/kW drives on downhill routes). A standard charge on the RAV gives you 33kWh of battery. At 3.0-3.1m/kWh average, that's a little over 100 miles on a standard charge, and sure enough, that's generally what we see even after 15 months of ownership. (An extended charge nets much more, from 120m-140m depending on route, HVAC and driving style.)

The Fit EV is *certainly* a more efficient EV - it's so much lighter (778 pounds!) and smaller, after all - but If you're only getting 80-90 miles total range with the RAV4 EV and you're seeing an average of 3m/kWh without tearing up the streets in sport mode, there's something wrong. Are you actually seeing that kind of range real-world, or are you going by the (conservative) estimates on the dash? It'd be pretty surprising that I'd see only 90m out of a standard charge, and my wife and I aren't conservative drivers, so I would be worried another factor is at play.
 
red_stripe05 said:
I also have a Fit EV, and I will say I'm fairly disappointed with the range so far in the RAV4 EV compared to the Fit EV. In the Fit, if I drive conservatively, I can get 80 to 90 miles of range out of it fairly easy in the summer months. Driving conservatively gets me 4.7 to 5.0 miles/kwh. Whereas driving in sport mode, the worst I've seen is 3.2 miles/kwh. So far with the RAV4, it seems no matter how conservative I drive, I can't get better than 3.0 miles/kwh.

One car is a cross-over car, and the other a small and light economy car. Of course they won't get the same ECONOMY.

That's an entirely different situation with range. The Rav4 EV will get far, far great range than the Fit EV... almost double.
 
tailgate1234 said:
Are you the new white RAV4 EV with Hanlee dealer license plate holders that was at Candlestick on Thursday night?

Yep, that was me. Took my parents to go see the McCartney show. Tailgating it with the new RAV4 EV parked right outside Gate A. So glad we got there early. Getting home was absolute hell though. It took almost 2 hours to get from the stadium just to the freaking highway. Completely insane traffic jam with no one directing traffic.
 
TonyWilliams said:
red_stripe05 said:
I also have a Fit EV, and I will say I'm fairly disappointed with the range so far in the RAV4 EV compared to the Fit EV. In the Fit, if I drive conservatively, I can get 80 to 90 miles of range out of it fairly easy in the summer months. Driving conservatively gets me 4.7 to 5.0 miles/kwh. Whereas driving in sport mode, the worst I've seen is 3.2 miles/kwh. So far with the RAV4, it seems no matter how conservative I drive, I can't get better than 3.0 miles/kwh.

One car is a cross-over car, and the other a small and light economy car. Of course they won't get the same ECONOMY.

That's an entirely different situation with range. The Rav4 EV will get far, far great range than the Fit EV... almost double.

Tony, I think you misunderstood me. I was just saying, with the Fit EV, I get terrible range when not driving conservatively. However, by staying under 65 mph on the freeway, keeping it in Eco mode, and switching part of my commute to city streets, I can see a HUGE jump in the efficiency, like going from 3.2 miles/kwh to 5 miles/kwh. That has a tremendous effect on range with Fit's 20 kwh battery. For better or worse, with the RAV4 it seems you can't really see that same kind of jump in efficiency just by changing your driving style. Drive fast or drive it slow, doesn't seem to make a difference in the efficiency. At least I know I will never have to worry about range with my 65 mile roundtrip commute with the RAV4, whereas with the Fit, I completely need to change how I drive in the winter just to make it to work and back. The best part is I can actually drive like a normal car again on the freeway instead of staying in the slow lane :)

I'm not an idiot, I knew the RAV4 EV very well by the time I actually leased it last week. It was the first electric car I'd ever test driven back in the fall of 2012. Its the entire reason I got into EV's in the first place, and a couple of you on this forum are what led me to install solar on my house. I just thought I'd be able to see the range I'd heard you guys talking about, like 150 miles, if I hypermiled it like I sometimes will do in my Fit EV. But I just don't think that's possible with what I've seen so far this last week driving interstate 80 from Richmond to Fairfield and back. Maybe there's a break-in period with the battery? Don't get me wrong, I love the RAV4 EV, but the Fit EV really seems to be the more well rounded of the two.
 
red_stripe05 said:
I just thought I'd be able to see the range I'd heard you guys talking about, like 150 miles, if I hypermiled it like I sometimes will do in my Fit EV. But I just don't think that's possible with what I've seen so far this last week driving interstate 80 from Richmond to Fairfield and back. Maybe there's a break-in period with the battery? Don't get me wrong, I love the RAV4 EV, but the Fit EV really seems to be the more well rounded of the two.
If you keep your speed down to 60 mph, you should have no problem going 150 miles on a charge. I do a 145 mile drive at least once a month and I usually have 15+ miles left on the GOM when I get home. I have only had a problem once, the battery was cold soaked and I had to drop my speed to 45 mph to make it home. As long as the temperature is between 60 and 100F and you aren't climbing a mountain you should be fine.
 
kiwiguy said:
Firstly, that is an excellent deal you got. I'm sure some of us are rethinking our negotiation skills.


I'll say! Does your $412/mo price include the CVRP rebate? If not, then Hanlees probably took ~ $600 loss on the car to move it off their lot. Nice job! I guess I should've gone there rather than Berkeley.
 
pchilds said:
red_stripe05 said:
I just thought I'd be able to see the range I'd heard you guys talking about, like 150 miles, if I hypermiled it like I sometimes will do in my Fit EV. But I just don't think that's possible with what I've seen so far this last week driving interstate 80 from Richmond to Fairfield and back. Maybe there's a break-in period with the battery? Don't get me wrong, I love the RAV4 EV, but the Fit EV really seems to be the more well rounded of the two.
If you keep your speed down to 60 mph, you should have no problem going 150 miles on a charge. I do a 145 mile drive at least once a month and I usually have 15+ miles left on the GOM when I get home. I have only had a problem once, the battery was cold soaked and I had to drop my speed to 45 mph to make it home. As long as the temperature is between 60 and 100F and you aren't climbing a mountain you should be fine.
Of course, it should be mentioned that we are saying you must charge in EXTENDED MODE to get that much range! An extended mode charge should increase range by ~20%.
 
Yeah, I got a really good deal. The $412/month before tax (with 9% sales tax its $449/month after tax) was for the unlimited mileage lease with absolutely no money down. I will get to pocket the CVRP of $2500 if/when they start paying the rebates out again. I think there is quite a back log because of timing with the fiscal year and the release of new funds.

Keep in mind, my deal was a special scenario where they had made a big mistake on their lease quote, and I had everything agreed upon and in writing before going to the dealership to sign. They of course caught the mistake before I could get to the dealership, but I remained firm on them honoring their price even though they wouldn't agree to discount it that much. We met about halfway between paying a lease similar to Dianne's deal and the amount they quoted me originally. It's also helpful that they had a couple older VIN RAV4 EV's on their lot. Mine was in the 2700's, but it still had all the plastic coverings on the seats and dash, and only had 30 total miles on the odometer. That's originally why I posted this in the first place, so that people wanting to find good deals would think to look for dealerships that had older inventory still sitting on their lots.

In the end, after all the haggling over fees and dealer contribution, my lease agreement shows the final total "Gross Capitalized Cost" to be $48,399. That includes EVERYTHING. My residual is $18,426. The subvention cash from Toyota brings the "Gross Capitalized Cost" down by a total of $15,151 (which is the $17,500 subvention cash minus the first month pmt of $449, minus reg & fees of $529, minus sales tax of $1,371 on the subvention cash). So $48,399 (sale price) - $18,426 (residual) - $15,151 (what is left of subvention cash) = $14,822. Divide that by 36 months, and you have a monthly payment of $412/month.

I love math. I'm the type of person that must understand where every single number is coming from before I sign anything. It also helps to build all this out in a spreadsheet so that you have variables to adjust when you go to a dealership and they start changing numbers on you.
 
red_stripe05 said:
I love math. I'm the type of person that must understand where every single number is coming from before I sign anything. It also helps to build all this out in a spreadsheet so that you have variables to adjust when you go to a dealership and they start changing numbers on you.


Yeah, they love changing the numbers on you and arguing that a particular monthly payment is "fair." I just told the salesperson to print out the contract and I'd show him exactly why the payment was too high. Once he did that, I got my price. But without having numbers in front of you, it's hard to negotiate. A spreadsheet with sample lease contract figures would be helpful.
 
red_stripe05 said:
The subvention cash from Toyota brings the "Gross Capitalized Cost" down by a total of $15,151 (which is the $17,500 subvention cash minus the first month pmt of $449, minus reg & fees of $529, minus sales tax of $1,371 on the subvention cash). So $48,399 (sale price) - $18,426 (residual) - $15,151 (what is left of subvention cash) = $14,822. Divide that by 36 months, and you have a monthly payment of $412/month.
Shouldn't that be divided by 35 months since you already subtracted out the first month's payment?

Update: Oh never mind, I see you subtracted it out to get the remainder of the subvention cash, which is in turn subtracted out of the total. Yes, divide by 36. Though I wonder how this method compares to how others are reporting. Anyway, great deal!
 
I drive my Rav 126 miles every weekday, 63 miles to work from Angels Camp to Sacramento and then back. I typically get 3.7 to 3.8 miles per KWh on the way in (1500 feet drop in elevation) and 3.2 on the way back home for an average of about 3.4 to 3.5 miles/KWh. If you keep it at 55 to 60 it's easy to get better than 3.0 miles/KWH. I have 43,000 on my 1.5 year old Rav4 EV and I still can get 120 miles on a regular 80% charge.
 
Glenn, you're doing really GOOD to average 3.4+ on such a round trip route. Are you using the A/C and regenerative braking very much? What is your passenger and cargo weight? Surely, you must be doing something extraordinary to get such high efficiency out of your RAV4 EV. I don't believe the "average" RAV4 EV driver could get anywhere close to such a high AMPK (average miles per kWh) driving back and forth through the Sierra foothills every day, especially in the Summer time.
 
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