shortest transit - Bay Area to LA

So i'm going to be down in LA for about a week in May, all distances (down there) that i could do in the Rav4 easily.

However i live in the Bay Area and i need to *get it down there*.

I'm sure some of you have driven a Rav4 between the two areas.
What's the shortest path and how long did it take you overall?

I recounted driving my new RAV back from Oxnard here.

Long story short, I recommend using the Rabobank charging stations on 101 as much as possible. Overnighting at Embassy Suites San Luis Obispo is also convenient due to a bank of free Clipper Creek stations in that shopping center - that and it breaks up the trip nicely.

i did find this useful list of hotels with charging on a Tesla forum:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkRSfuwpy2DXdDZlYWtjS3BZN0QyLVN1Yy14TUFKV0E&usp=drive_web#gid=4

I also played around a bit with tony's chart, made a couple of assumptions and computed the actual (minimum) time to drive the 375 miles to LA (if you were driving or charging all the time and you were using a typical "public" charge station (e.g. 30A/208V). If you can find the Rabobank ones and they work, you win...

the chart is here



A couple of interesting points:
- you always go slower by going faster
- at relatively low speeds, 45-60 mph, that difference is not that large (increasing speed from 45->50 adds only a half hour to the trip)
- at high speed, that difference becomes larger very fast. (increasing speed from 65-70 adds 1.5 hours)
- 55-60mph is probably the best speed if you want to blend in with traffic, its only 10-15% slower than the time you get at 45mph.

The percentages "slower than 45mph" in total elapsed time at this distance are:
50mph - 3%
55mph - 10%
60mph - 15%
65mph - 20%
70mph - 30%
75mph - 49%
80mph - 67%
85mph - 103% (yes it takes *twice as long* to get there if you leadfoot it all the way...)

Caveats:

I assumed you started with a full "extended" charge for which you pay no time penalty.
This is minimum time, so you arrive at your destination with no charge.
I assumed you used a standard J1772 public charger (like a Chargepoint) at 5.5kilowatts, which is pretty typical of what i've found.
I assume no elevation change (actually driving the route involves little net elevation change, but some power loss going up and down hills)
I assume you wait for the charge and then immediately continue driving. (of course you could actually stay at a hotel and charge while you sleep, so you might not optimize this closely. *all* of these trips at any speed are > 15 hours long.
This is using the numbers in Tony's chart, which doesn't include drafting trucks or other "advanced" hypermiling techniques to increase range.

Tony's chart doesn't have data for < 45mph but from the shape it looks like something around 40 will be optimal (ie. least time to target)
@45mph you spend about 8 1/3 hours driving and about 7 hours "charging" during the trip (after you burn off the initial extended charge).
@60mph you spend only 6 1/4 hours driving but 11 1/3rd hours charging (so about 2 less driving but 4+ more charging).

Overall i found this exercise pretty encouraging. What i didnt model is "when is it faster to take a slower (but longer) route than a route where you ahve to drive fast (ie. highway 5)".

For instance, drive highway 1 to LA at an average of 45 mph (i've done this but in a massively less fuel efficient vehicle) vs. taking the shorter highway 101 route at 60mph average speed? Etc.

(yes, highway 1 is prettier too).

miimura said:

I recounted driving my new RAV back from Oxnard here.

Long story short, I recommend using the Rabobank charging stations on 101 as much as possible. Overnighting at Embassy Suites San Luis Obispo is also convenient due to a bank of free Clipper Creek stations in that shopping center - that and it breaks up the trip nicely.

Click to expand...

Rabobank sites (Goleta, Santa Maria, Atascadero, Salinas) will let you charge at ~9.6 vs ~6.6kW. You should bump charge in King City or Paso Robles to make San Luis Obispo in case Atascadero is busy. Plan alternate sites if first choice is in use. Better to top up on an empty site than stretch to your preferred site to find it in use. PlugShare and ChargePoint phone apps will be useful.

keijidosha said:

Rabobank sites (Goleta, Santa Maria, Atascadero, Salinas) will let you charge at ~9.6 vs ~6.6kW. You should bump charge in King City or Paso Robles to make San Luis Obispo in case Atascadero is busy. Plan alternate sites if first choice is in use. Better to top up on an empty site than stretch to your preferred site to find it in use. PlugShare and ChargePoint phone apps will be useful.

Click to expand...

They're not all 9.6kW into the RAV. I know at least Salinas is on 208V power, but Goleta may be 240V. Anyway, they're 1/3 faster than other 30A public stations.

There is a whole lot of nothing (no charging stations) between Salinas and King City and King City and Paso Robles so those are the critical stretches. The SemaCharge station in Paso Robles is new and good if you're coming up short to Atascadero. Make sure to get one of their cards in advance. It's also useful in Monterrey and other random places around the Bay Area. I keep one with the ChargePoint and Blink cards in the car for any charging emergencies that may come up.

Also, remember that there is a nearly 700 foot climb and then 1200 foot descent between Atascadero and San Luis Obispo.

i'm planning to stay at that place in Paso Robles on the way down and back (it has charging as part of the hotel).

my calculations show i can charge for ~2 hours at Salinas (I may drive down there one day and try out the charger and drive back because its at the extreme "round trip" range from the bay area just to check out the charger. I did the RenFaire without charging from here at Casa de Fruita, which is just about the same effective distance)

Then the next day, leave Paso Robles, and charge @ Santa Maria (this is an "insurance" charge n case Goleta isnt avialable), and Goleta. Then i should be able to make it all the way to LA from there. (although i have a location south of Santa Barbara scoped out. I may just stop in Santa Barbara anyway and pick up some charge there).

I did all the calculations using "bars" as opposed to the GOM miles (although i converted bars into "expected" GOM values just to check).

Looks like about 7 hours of charging i have to "wait for", plus the overnight charges i can sleep during

This looks way more doable than I thought. Its definately a "overnight" trip one-way, but seems fairly pleasant. If i wasnt going to LA for 9 days, i probably woudlnt consider it, but i'd like to have the Rav4 down there and think of saving 800-900 miles worth of gas

so just as a test, i did a careful drive from my house in Fremont to a charger i use in Stockton, CA last weekend.

I set cruise control to 60 for the "highway" stretches of this trip (about 2/3rds of the total by milage). so i didnt exceed 61 mph.
I ended up using 3.3mi/kwh (according to the car), even though my average speed was only 43mph on the trip. The trip was 69 miles and involves two substantial hill climbs, one to about 900' elevation west of livermore and one to 1009' at the Altamont Pass.

I subtracted out the effect of the two hill climbs and my milage without hill climbs comes out to 3.56 mi/kwh. (using the 2kwh/1000' going up vs. 1kwh/1000' coming down model). My starting and ending elevation were the same (under 20'). The temperature was right around 70F for most of this trip so pretty ideal and i didnt use climate control at all. (i did have radio on though).

My car has 12000 miles on it now. It's *possible* theres some small degredation of the battery but i'm thinking it has to be pretty small (less than 3-4%). Otherwise i would've noticed it on my drives back from the mountains.

n3ckf said:

I subtracted out the effect of the two hill climbs and my milage without hill climbs comes out to 3.56 mi/kwh. (using the 2kwh/1000' going up vs. 1kwh/1000' coming down model). My starting and ending elevation were the same (under 20'). The temperature was right around 70F for most of this trip so pretty ideal and i didnt use climate control at all. (i did have radio on though).

Click to expand...

You seem to have it figured out quite well. All your numbers pass the "sniff" test :mrgreen:

If you want to get creative and ensure that you get 240 volts instead of 208 volts, use RV parks with "50 amp" service. Of course, you'll need a 40 amp capable EVSE in your car with a NEMA 14-50P, like the JESLAtm.

50 amp RV electrical service in California

Google Maps of the route

360 miles

6 hours 30 minutes driving

All driving at 60mph, 3.6 miles/kWh, heater off (air conditioning is ok), with new condition battery, above 70F ambient temperatures. Use of a degraded battery will merely lower the remaining miles at each stop.

Remember, if you want to shorten the time overall, slow the speed.

**************************

THIS IS A ONE DAY TRIP IN THE TOYOTA RAV4 EV


1) 0700am - San Jose, CA, start with 100% charge, not cold or windy, range 150 miles @ 60 mph (3.6 miles/kWh) with cruise control on (that's not the GOM range, instead it's real range at 60mph).



65.0 miles, 1 hour 15 minutes on US-101, 85 miles range remaining
1+15 total time



2) 0815am - 16225 Cienega Rd, Hollister, CA 95023
Charge at 240 volt / 40 amps for 1.5 hours * 30 miles per hour gained = 45 miles added + 85 miles remaining = 130 miles range remaining. 15 minute contingency
NOTE: for maximum time efficiency, it is not recommended to charge above 90%



96.2 miles – about 2 hours 6 minutes, 34 miles range remaining
3+51 total time



3) 1206pm - 41191 S Glenn Ave, Coalinga, CA
Charge at 240 volt / 40 amps for 3.0 hours * 30 miles per hour gained = 90 miles added + (130 - 96.2 miles) remaining = 124 miles range remaining. 15 minute contingency



79.0 miles – about 1 hour 12 min, 45 miles range remaining
4+27 total time



4) 1633pm - Tupman, CA
Charge at 240 volt / 40 amps for 3.0 hours * 30 miles per hour gained = 90 miles added + (124 - 79 miles) remaining = 135 miles range remaining. 15 minute contingency



58.7 miles – about 58 minutes, 76 miles range remaining
4+13 total time



5) 2046pm - 45100 Copco Ave, Gorman, CA
Charge at 240 volt / 40 amps for 1.0 hours * 30 miles per hour gained = 30 miles added + (135 - 58.7 miles) remaining = 106 miles range remaining. 15 minute contingency. You need this boost to go over the 4400 feet elevation "Grapevine", even though it may seem that you could otherwise "make it".


59.8 miles – about 1 hour 1 min, 106 miles range remaining previously minus 59.8 miles = 46 miles remaining



6) 2302pm - Los Angeles, CA arrival with 46 miles remaining




*************************

I think I remember throwing the voltmeter on the J1772 Clipper Creek / Tesla CS-90 at Rabobank in Goleta and getting 240 volts. The rest may be 208 volt.

It looks like I figured out how to do 18 hours total time from San Jose to Los Angeles. See above.