Toyota Rav4 EV Forum

It is currently Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:47 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 116 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 8:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:05 am
Posts: 311
TonyWilliams wrote:
I didn't say I thought H2 was the best choice for consumers; but, it may be for Toyota. If the engineers are singing how awesome-o it is, and Toyota publically tells the world how they don't like EV's, I think it's no brainer what they will do in 2015.

For long haul trucks, I think H2 might work.

I know you didn't. Just responding more as to my discussion with the Toyota field engineer. He has taken a really big gulp of the FCV koolaid from Toyota. ;)

_________________
2012 Blizzard Pearl Rav4 EV - Repurchased by Toyota
ClipperCreek CS-60 EVSE now for sale
Open EVSE 30 Amp


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build this car? CARB-ZEV credits, that's
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 8:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:05 am
Posts: 311
miimura wrote:
AvLegends wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
About half of the 68 stations are open, in planning or have funding committed. An additional $65 million will provide support to build and operate stations until they become profitable.

Doesn't look like half of the stations are open to me... :roll: Lot of purple dots! I think this program is much like Jerry's high speed train up the central valley. What a joke that is... I just think it is an incredibly optimistic goal to think all these will be open within this time frame. At least there is a purple dot in Ventura near me. :) Our tax dollars (or union efforts) at work I guess...
The key phrase is "in planning" which is all the purple dots.

I know, I know... but I still think it is just plain STUPID!


AvLegends wrote:
We have the ability to fill up overnight at home with stable pricing for a fraction of what it costs at the pump... even less when solar is involved. I know the EV isn't for everyone but that's what the gas burners are for. I still have one. I guess I just don't get it!
miimura wrote:
I don't get FCV either. CNG/LNG is a good solution for heavy duty trucks, off-highway, and fleets, but I don't think it's good for personal cars.

I understand those with natural gas at home can purchase some sort of home CNG fueling station. GE and Eaton are working on a home CNG fueling station for around $500. ICE cars can even be converted to CNG. Won't work for me personally as we live in a "Gold Medallion" all electric home. I just can't understand the H2 push! Oh well...

_________________
2012 Blizzard Pearl Rav4 EV - Repurchased by Toyota
ClipperCreek CS-60 EVSE now for sale
Open EVSE 30 Amp


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 9:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 3966
Location: San Diego
For about 75 years, Toyota made money until the worldwide crash of 2008. Now this:

"Toyota projects 42% jump in FY net profit. Having reported its largest annual profit in five years earlier this month, Toyota (TM) has forecast that its FY 2014 net income will jump 42% to ¥1.37T ($13.4B). Meanwhile, the car maker intends to increase the total compensation paid to directors by 28% to ¥1.53B."

No matter what they do, they won't likely lose sight of the bottom line.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 1:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:56 pm
Posts: 132
Location: Webster, NY
I think it depends on how low they could get the cost of the fuel cell.

GM has been working on a fuel cell for at least a decade. My father in law test drove one locally for 2 years. He drove 3 days a week (about 200 miles per day) in different conditions and temperatures gathering performance and durability data. GM has produced a handful of these.

The limiting factor right now is the cost of the fuel cell interface (the area where H2 reacts with O2 and produces electricity and H2O). The interface right now requires lots of palladium and is very expensive to make. Last time I heard GM was trying to get the cost from 100k per fuel cell interface down to 10k.

Toyota may be willing to lose money on these but if their loss was 100k per car I would think they would just buy the credits from Tesla or pay the penalties.

_________________
Pearl White Rav4 EV delivered May 2013 - 49000 miles and counting
Clipper Creek LCS-25
8.16kw solar
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 3966
Location: San Diego
This was on CNN Money... today!!

Toyota is spending billions in research on fuel cell cars that the company plans to introduce by 2015 —and the (Japanese) government is reportedly working to build hydrogen infrastructure. This, according to Fortune, is “giving the plug-in builders something to worry about in their rear view mirrors.”

Yep, I'm convinced this is the end of battery electrics at Toyota for some time. 2015 is perfect for the next phase of CARB-ZEV, when the 2600th Rav4 EV is sold in 2014.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 9:49 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Sacramento CA
Tony is right. Tony is always right.

Went to a charity fundraising black tie affair last night. Major corporations making major donations for a very good cause. Big Wig from Toyota CA was one of many who spoke brief words about their corporation and their donations. He started, "The atmosphere here is as electric as a RAV4 EV!" My wife and I were among the few who knew was he was talking about. In the grip and grin session afterward we approached and told him we bought a RAV4 EV and loved it. He smiled and said, "Great! And you know our next step is hydrogen fuel cells!!"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:10 am
Posts: 218
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
jlhodges wrote:
Tony is right. Tony is always right.

Went to a charity fundraising black tie affair last night. Major corporations making major donations for a very good cause. Big Wig from Toyota CA was one of many who spoke brief words about their corporation and their donations. He started, "The atmosphere here is as electric as a RAV4 EV!" My wife and I were among the few who knew was he was talking about. In the grip and grin session afterward we approached and told him we bought a RAV4 EV and loved it. He smiled and said, "Great! And you know our next step is hydrogen fuel cells!!"


LOL. Yes they have a hydrogen fueling station across the street from Toyota headquarters in Torrance. There are some charging stations nearby but only available to employees. I posted somewhere else on this forum that the Head of the Toyota Foundation won a Tesla Model S at a charity auction last year. Needless to say he gave it back to the charity,

I have more faith in EV and battery technology than Hydrogen.

_________________
Drove a RAV4 EV from October 2012 to November 2013
Driving a Smart ED since August 2013 and a Volt since December 2013.
Converting a VW to electric since April 2012
3.8KWhr Solar Panels on roof of home.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 3966
Location: San Diego
Ampster wrote:
I have more faith in EV and battery technology than Hydrogen.


Well, we're not talking about EV's (which I think will explode in 10 years), but about how Toyota will handle EVs, and my thesis is they won't anytime soon. They have been very consistent that EVs are bad, hybrids are good. And now, it's pretty obvious that their 2015 zero emission vehicle will be H2.

My opinion on H2 cars is "dead on arrival", but that isn't the motivation for Toyota. They need to sell millions of oil burning cars, and California won't let them do that without some ZEV's. I think they can find a teeny tiny number of people to buy them, just like we bought the Rav4 EV (because that's all they need). Or buy credits from Nissan and Tesla!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:10 am
Posts: 218
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
TonyWilliams wrote:
Ampster wrote:
I have more faith in EV and battery technology than Hydrogen.


Well, we're not talking about EV's (which I think will explode in 10 years), but about how Toyota will handle EVs, and my thesis is they won't anytime soon. They have been very consistent that EVs are bad, hybrids are good. And now, it's pretty obvious that their 2015 zero emission vehicle will be H2.

My opinion on H2 cars is "dead on arrival", but that isn't the motivation for Toyota. They need to sell millions of oil burning cars, and California won't let them do that without some ZEV's. I think they can find a teeny tiny number of people to buy them, just like we bought the Rav4 EV (because that's all they need). Or buy credits from Nissan and Tesla!!!


I agree, and for whatever reason that appears to be their strategy. The only thing that might cause them to shift toward more EVs would be for the RAV4EV to sell out in a short time frame. and that does not appear to be happening.

_________________
Drove a RAV4 EV from October 2012 to November 2013
Driving a Smart ED since August 2013 and a Volt since December 2013.
Converting a VW to electric since April 2012
3.8KWhr Solar Panels on roof of home.


Last edited by Ampster on Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1692
Location: Los Altos, CA
Ampster wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
Ampster wrote:
I have more faith in EV and battery technology than Hydrogen.


Well, we're not talking about EV's (which I think will explode in 10 years), but about how Toyota will handle EVs, and my thesis is they won't anytime soon. They have been very consistent that EVs are bad, hybrids are good. And now, it's pretty obvious that their 2015 zero emission vehicle will be H2.

My opinion on H2 cars is "dead on arrival", but that isn't the motivation for Toyota. They need to sell millions of oil burning cars, and California won't let them do that without some ZEV's. I think they can find a teeny tiny number of people to buy them, just like we bought the Rav4 EV (because that's all they need). Or buy credits from Nissan and Tesla!!!


I agree, and for whatever reason that appears to be there strategy. The only thing that might cause them to shift toward more EVs would be for the RAV4 EV to sell out in a short time frame. and that does not appear to be happening.
If they start selling better, they will reduce the rebate. After they reduce the rebate to zero, they will take away the promotional financing. If they are still selling ahead of plan, they will hold the production rate at just what they need to meet the required volume. Then the dealers will start adding markup above the MSRP. The way Toyota is doing it, it is easy to regulate demand. The problem is that people now expect the rebate at the high level ($7,500+), so they may find themselves stuck at that level unless something drastic happens like a gas price spike.

It's only when you have a lease-only situation like Honda does with the Fit EV where you actually get a sold-out (or wait-listed) situation. Honda controls the lease price, so the dealers don't really have a way to control the demand. I'm sure that if Honda finds that they are getting waiting lists for the Fit EV at the new $259/mo price, they will raise it back up to find the equilibrium between their desired volume and customer demand.

_________________
2012 Shoreline Blue #1462 w/JdeMO | 2018 Tesla Model 3 LR | 4.32kW Motech/Enphase PV Solar + 2x Powerwall 2 AC| Leviton EVB40 40A & Jesla Home Charging | 2015 e-Golf LE (returned)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 116 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
© Toyota Rav4 EV Forum - part of the MyElectricCarForums.com Group