New owner - Charging question

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foxwiz

Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Messages
24
Location
Agoura Hills, CA
I just purchased a new RAV4 EV on Sunday and so far have been charging it with the charger that came with the vehicle. Two nights ago, I gave it a full charge and in the morning it said that I had 91 miles. All is good. Then last night when I started the charge the range showed 79 miles. On the display it said that it would take about 8-9 hours to fully charge. When I went to unplug the charger this morning to go to work, the status said fully charged, and the display only showed 86 miles instead of 91 miles.

Why didn't it go to 91? I've only had the car for 3 1/2 days.
 
Welcome, foxwiz!

You'll notice a term around here (and in other electric car forums) when describing the numeric range readout - GOM. That stands for Guess-O-Meter, because the numeric reading is really just a guess. Because mileage on the same level of charge varies based on driving style - aggressive driving in sport mode almost invariably uses more energy per mile than conservative driving, and because the climate control uses differing levels of power based on fan settings, air conditioning, and the heater - the car "guesses" the range based on the way you've been driving and how the climate control system is being used. GOMs are always imprecise, and often just plain wrong - not just on the RAV4 EV, but even on conventional cars that have them. The GOM doesn't always go down - sometimes, after lots of regenerative braking, or turning off the climate control, or switching driving styles, you'll see your range on the GOM go *up* as you drive.

So, treat that number with a grain of salt. It'll be a little different every day, sometimes higher, sometimes lower. The "real" charge is shown with the 16 bars immediately to the left of the GOM, which, if all of the bars are lit, shows a complete standard charge. As long as that's all the way up to the top, you're all good.

(Note that if you do an extended charge, the car doesn't show "extra" bars or adjust how fast the bars deplete - it just starts decrementing the bars once the extra charge is depleted, which according to TonyWilliams is around 27 miles or so.)

Enjoy your new RAV4 EV!
 
Thanks for the quick response and that makes me feel better. Funny about the GOM but I will treat it as you say and rely on the bars. I have heard that people can get more than 91 miles on a charge so I guess it just depends on how one drives. My wife and I will be sharing the vehicle but mostly she will use it cause she has a 45 mile round trip commute to work.

I am getting a Leviton charger installed within a day or two so charging will go much faster than using the default plug that came with the vehicle.

How long have you had your vehicle? Can you give me your thoughts on ownership so far?
 
We bought our RAV4 EV (2012, classic silver) four weeks ago, and have around 1300 miles on it already. Our use case is very similar to yours. We're sharing the car, but my wife has a 70+ mile roundtrip commute. We also had the recommended Leviton 40A charger installed at our house.

So far, our experience has been really good. I had done a lot of reading here and at other forums about issues folks were facing, but we haven't had any major glitches to speak of, even with the charge timer. The range has been better than advertised - we can easily take a 20m drive sat night after my wife's 70m commute and have plenty left over after a standard charge, so we've had very little range anxiety. The performance and ride are really great, and it's very comfortable for both of us.

The only thing that has been a little weird - and you'll see other folks describe this in other posts here - is the way the car inconsistently chooses a time to turn itself on to charge in the middle of the night when using the charge timer, and always finishes charging 7 minutes late. This hasn't been a problem for us - it's always started charging after midnight, when the electric rates go down, but it is a bit disconcerting. We just set the charge timer for a departure time 10 minutes before we actually expect to depart, and there hasn't been a problem since. The advertised charge times for the Leviton charger seem accurate, and the charge is usually only around 3 hours to get back to full after my wife's commute.

While we haven't experienced a single missed charge yet, many on the forum have said there's a bug in the timer that affects the timer on last day of months with 31 days, and a problem where the charge timer doesn't work with a Level 2 charger after using the 120V charger. You'll want to be on the lookout for those, and possibly do a manual charge on the 31st of any month or after you use the 120V charger and go back to a Level 2 charger.

We had two issues that weren't really related to the car:

* It was hard to get PG&E to switch us over to the E-9A timed rate plan. We had a number of interactions with folks there who seemed a little confused by the whole thing. (We didn't need to upgrade our power to install the charging station, and we already have a smart meter, so perhaps they just weren't used to switching the rate plan without some sort of site visit or upgrade.)

* We were wondering why we didn't have all of the functionality of the Entune app (charge monitor, remote climate, etc.), and it turns out that you need to register for your 3 free years of Safety Connect before that shows up. The dealer didn't give us the necessary info when we bought the car, but the Safety Connect people were very nice about getting us set up. You'll want to call them at 1-800-331-4331 if you haven't already signed up.

All in all, though, we really love it. With the recent deep discounts, the Tesla drivetrain, good range and a roomy interior, it's really been a great fit for us.
 
Welcome. Yes, the GOM is just a guess, but not only that, it bases its guess on the most recent driving interval also. So for instance, if you live on top of a long hill, by the time you get home, you would have expended more than average energy most recently, and so the GOM will estimate on the low side. Of course, with spirited driving, your GOM guesses will suffer as well. That's how it was for us when we first got ours..lots of fun acceleration and test drives, and only got 90 something miles after a full charge. Give it some time as you learn to drive efficiently and you will see the GOM adjusts to about ~120 mile after a full charge.

We got ours for about 3 1/2 months now (4500 miles) and we're super happy for the range and utility that no other EV can match right now (with Toyota deep discount, and the 0% financing helped also). The Tesla S is just way too much out of our reach. So far, we've have had only one issue, the annoying louder than normal motor HUM at 65mph, but Toyota was willing to replace the motor (but it did take some effort!). The rav4ev is not as quiet as other EVs, but quieter than a normal car (as EV should be).

Enjoy your new EV, as we are still, with great range and utility.
 
The range estimate shown after a full charge is based on your previous style of driving. Normal charge gives you 80%, or approximately 33.4 kwh out of the total 41.8 kwh in the battery.

A range of 86 miles indicates you've been driving at a rate of about 2.5 miles per kwh in the battery (2.57 x 33.4 = ~86). If you drive more efficiently you'll see the estimate range go higher, if you drive fast with lots of acceleration (ie having fun) you'll see the range go down. If you want you can use the efficiency monitor to see how various driving styles impact your miles per kwh.

foxwiz said:
the status said fully charged, and the display only showed 86 miles instead of 91 miles. Why didn't it go to 91?
Click to expand...
 
snoltor said:
The range estimate shown after a full charge is based on your previous style of driving. Normal charge gives you 80%, or approximately 33.4 kwh out of the total 41.8 kwh in the battery.

A range of 86 miles indicates you've been driving at a rate of about 2.5 miles per kwh in the battery (2.57 x 33.4 = ~86). If you drive more efficiently you'll see the estimate range go higher, if you drive fast with lots of acceleration (ie having fun) you'll see the range go down. If you want you can use the efficiency monitor to see how various driving styles impact your miles per kwh.

foxwiz said:
the status said fully charged, and the display only showed 86 miles instead of 91 miles. Why didn't it go to 91?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Thanks for the reply. I took some co-workers for a ride and of course people ask about the acceleration so I had to put the "pedal to the metal"! Normally, I won't be showing off, but the car is new. Gotta have a little fun.
 
eschatfische said:
We bought our RAV4 EV (2012, classic silver) four weeks ago, and have around 1300 miles on it already. Our use case is very similar to yours. We're sharing the car, but my wife has a 70+ mile roundtrip commute. We also had the recommended Leviton 40A charger installed at our house.

So far, our experience has been really good. I had done a lot of reading here and at other forums about issues folks were facing, but we haven't had any major glitches to speak of, even with the charge timer. The range has been better than advertised - we can easily take a 20m drive sat night after my wife's 70m commute and have plenty left over after a standard charge, so we've had very little range anxiety. The performance and ride are really great, and it's very comfortable for both of us.

The only thing that has been a little weird - and you'll see other folks describe this in other posts here - is the way the car inconsistently chooses a time to turn itself on to charge in the middle of the night when using the charge timer, and always finishes charging 7 minutes late. This hasn't been a problem for us - it's always started charging after midnight, when the electric rates go down, but it is a bit disconcerting. We just set the charge timer for a departure time 10 minutes before we actually expect to depart, and there hasn't been a problem since. The advertised charge times for the Leviton charger seem accurate, and the charge is usually only around 3 hours to get back to full after my wife's commute.

While we haven't experienced a single missed charge yet, many on the forum have said there's a bug in the timer that affects the timer on last day of months with 31 days, and a problem where the charge timer doesn't work with a Level 2 charger after using the 120V charger. You'll want to be on the lookout for those, and possibly do a manual charge on the 31st of any month or after you use the 120V charger and go back to a Level 2 charger.

We had two issues that weren't really related to the car:

* It was hard to get PG&E to switch us over to the E-9A timed rate plan. We had a number of interactions with folks there who seemed a little confused by the whole thing. (We didn't need to upgrade our power to install the charging station, and we already have a smart meter, so perhaps they just weren't used to switching the rate plan without some sort of site visit or upgrade.)

* We were wondering why we didn't have all of the functionality of the Entune app (charge monitor, remote climate, etc.), and it turns out that you need to register for your 3 free years of Safety Connect before that shows up. The dealer didn't give us the necessary info when we bought the car, but the Safety Connect people were very nice about getting us set up. You'll want to call them at 1-800-331-4331 if you haven't already signed up.

All in all, though, we really love it. With the recent deep discounts, the Tesla drivetrain, good range and a roomy interior, it's really been a great fit for us.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing your experience with your car. I think I'm going to really love the car and not worry about "range anxiety" knowing that I can safely get to where I want to go. I will give the Safety Connect people a call because the dealer didn't talk about it. I appreciate the feedback.
 
Welcome. Another thing you might be unaware of is about Entune app called "ECO Dashboard" on your mobile phone. This app keeps track of your driving efficiency over time and compares it with all other RAV4 EV drivers using the same app. Using this app you can see how your driving efficiency fluctuates from day to day, and month to month, and how much better (or worse) other drivers are doing in their cars compared to your RAV4 EV.

As an aside, when my wife drives the car, her driving efficiency typically goes way down, but when I drive - masterfully with respect to regenerative brakes I might add - my driving efficiency generally goes way back up. It's a constant see-saw battle as to who's driving style takes the most precedence as affects our recharge range on the GoM. Unfortunately, I usually only get to drive the car mostly on weekends, so I am having a tough time getting the GoM over 90 miles (or ~2.6mi/kWh average driving efficiency) after standard charges. However, if I was the sole driver, I'd likely have the "bragging right" that goes with a maximum indicated range of 110 miles or greater on the GoM.

My best efforts so far resulted in a maximum indicated range of 114 miles after a standard charge, (and 135 after all too few extended charges), but while driving like an old lady going to church on Sundays with an egg under the accelerator pedal. :mrgreen:
 
I wanted to reply to this part of the prior poster's statement:

* We were wondering why we didn't have all of the functionality of the Entune app (charge monitor, remote climate, etc.), and it turns out that you need to register for your 3 free years of Safety Connect before that shows up. The dealer didn't give us the necessary info when we bought the car, but the Safety Connect people were very nice about getting us set up. You'll want to call them at 1-800-331-4331 if you haven't already signed up.

When I have a client here, I can handle this personally. Show the car sold in the system, open the safety connect screens, activate that, and then the Entune/telematics work seamlessly.... but for one hitch: If you want the charging stations and the "tracking" to work, you still have to call and connect those dots yourself. I usually have folks call that help line and get right into the Rav4 EV folks and they give you the code to put into the app on the phone and it works great. You need some secret code that I am unable to obtain - but they will give it to the car's owner. Why do they do this? No idea. It slows me / us down for about 20 minutes ... so if the powers that be are reading this, please make it so the code we need comes to the buyers email? Thanks!

Dianne :p
 
foxwiz said:
Thanks for the reply. I took some co-workers for a ride and of course people ask about the acceleration so I had to put the "pedal to the metal"! Normally, I won't be showing off, but the car is new. Gotta have a little fun.
Click to expand...
If you didn't do it when showing it to them, be sure to turn on sport mode, next time. :) Be ready for any torque steer.
 
Dianne said:
When I have a client here, I can handle this personally. Show the car sold in the system, open the safety connect screens, activate that, and then the Entune/telematics work seamlessly.... but for one hitch: If you want the charging stations and the "tracking" to work, you still have to call and connect those dots yourself. I usually have folks call that help line and get right into the Rav4 EV folks and they give you the code to put into the app on the phone and it works great. You need some secret code that I am unable to obtain - but they will give it to the car's owner. Why do they do this? No idea. It slows me / us down for about 20 minutes ... so if the powers that be are reading this, please make it so the code we need comes to the buyers email? Thanks!

Dianne :p
Click to expand...
Hi Dianne. FYI....I bought my car from Greg at your dealership in March. I bought it on a Sunday morning and by the evening I received an email to the address I provided you from mysafteyconnect.com with the subject Toyota Subscription Agreement. The agreement was attached as a PDF and on the top right corner of the second page was the contract id. The contract id is the only piece of information I needed to sign up for entune on the web with full functionality.
 
snoltor said:
If you want you can use the efficiency monitor to see how various driving styles impact your miles per kwh.
Click to expand...

In my six weeks of ownership, snoltor has dominated the efficiency rankings. I hover near the top ten, yet even my best days are rarely as good as snoltor's average. I wonder if he is using the same wind we are using. ;)
 
I'm just a newbie. I believe yblaser is the master for MPK on a monthly basis. And of course Waidy and pchilds who've both scored 170+ miles on a charge. To paraphrase Newton, "we reach new heights by standing on the shoulders of giants"
 
snoltor said:
I'm just a newbie. I believe yblaser is the master for MPK on a monthly basis. And of course Waidy and pchilds who've both scored 170+ miles on a charge. To paraphrase Newton, "we reach new heights by standing on the shoulders of giants"
Click to expand...
My 18 mile crawl home stuck in traffic on the 405 sure helped. I was hitting 5 MPkWh on the trip home with speeds averaging 20-30 mph. I started driving more normally after the first two months (plus got my carpool sticker) and sadly I'm not even in the top ten at 3.4-3.5 MPkWh.
 
At least one member here drove 175 miles on a single charge. That member here is "Waidy", and as I recall she claimed that resulted from a "standard" charge. Therefore, the best "MPK" is 175/35 = 5.00mi/kWh. That is probably almost DOUBLE what most of us typically get! :mrgreen:
 
Last night, I miscalculated driving 135 miles from San Luis Obispo to Salinas, so I had the pleasure of testing some speeds and economy (posted below). Of course, the data is always level terrain, no wind, steady speed, no climate control, however quite significantly loaded down!!!

My troubles began when I didn't charge up all the way in SLO. The charger starts ramping down from 40 amps at about 90%, so I usually give up if I'm sitting and waiting. Plus, I've been measuring the power coming out of some of these... The one I'm at now in Salinas is 70 amps, but only 200 volts!!! When you only have 30 amps, like virtually all public charging stations are, that low voltage is another 20% below 240 volts we typically get at home.

Anyhoo, out on the road I tried drafting a truck at 55mph, but he got agitated. I was showing about a 20% improvement in economy while drafting, but out in the free air I went. If there was any wind at all, it would be a slight headwind on this route. Then, I got tired and cold. So, I pulled over for a quick nap, WITH THE HEATER ON. Super dumb. I was WAY off the road, but a friendly California Highway Patrol guy woke me up to make sure I was alright. Thanks! Then I realized a whole bunch of my sacred range had disappeared. Yep, I left the car on and heater at 78. The seat heat was on, but the cabin was really cool (hey, that's my excuse).

I won't mention the migrant worker town I sat at for 2 hours on a 120 volt socket... Ok, I will mention it; there were three outlets, and I popped the breaker on the first two at 12 amps. I only stopped charging after only two hours because a car pulled in the lot, and I think I was in his spot. Sort of uncomfortable, and my Spanish might not be very good for a potentially drunk guy coming home to me stealing electricity.

Thankfully, I have a modified 2013 Nissan LEAF / Panasonic that I could dial down to 8 amps and it worked. There were no more plugs. The first 120 volt receptacle that I tried at a different location got a GFCI fault, so I guess four total attempts at 120 volts in the middle of the night.

The GOM showed 11 miles after the two hours at 8 amps, and I had 19 miles to go. All that time had only added about 4 miles of range. So, eventually I had to drive 1.9 miles while in Turtle mode looking for a ChargePoint charging station that I'd never been to at 3am. I couldn't find it, and almost gave up, knowing the car would shut down very, very soon. I can't believe I went that far, but I was "breathing" on that gas peddle to make it move the car.

NOTE: Tesla charger will pull maximum 20 amps on 100- 120 volts, and of course, 40 amps on 200-277 volts.

25mph - 5.6 miles/kWh
30mph - 5.4
35mph - 5.2
40mph - 5.0
45mph - 4.7
50mph - 4.4
55mph - 4.0
65mph - 3.5
70mph - 3.0
 
TonyWilliams said:
.............
Thankfully, I have a modified 2013 Nissan LEAF / Panasonic that I could dial down to 8 amps and it worked.
..........
NOTE: Tesla charger will pull maximum 20 amps on 100- 120 volts, and of course, 40 amps on 200-277 volts.

.........
Click to expand...
If the Tesla charger pulls 20 amps how does the "dialed down" Panasonic EVSE tell the charger to pull less amps. Is this done with the J1772 signal or changed resister value?
 

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