Tesla Supercharger Stations

Has anyone used these? Does Tesla allow this? I know someone that stopped at a local dealership and they let him charge there not that means anything.

Short answer is no, Tesla doesn't allow it, and the physical connections don't mesh either. It might be technically possible to make some modifications to the car to make it happen, but even if you could get it to work it would amount to theft.

There may be some hope for getting an adapter to get ChaDeMo quick charging (like the Leaf uses) to work, however.

Whether or not Tesla allows it is besides the point. RAV4 EV's don't have a Supercharger port. I once spoke to a Tesla tech and was told that theoretically you could install a Supercharger on a 40 kWh Model S (if they exist) even though Tesla doesn't market the ability. Therefore you could theoretically install a Supercharger on a RAV4 EV. Theory aside, would Tesla authorize the installation? I doubt it. I have heard that some Supercharger stations include a J1772 plug (specifically the one at Harris Ranch), though I haven't personally seen it. I know that the station at Laval Road doesn't have one.

As for the Chademo charger that some Leafs use, it would take more than a simple converter. The Chademo is 480VDV and the J1772 is 240VAC. Theoretically it could be done, but I wouldn't trust my local RAV4 EV dealer to play with the high voltage wiring involved. This would again be a job for Tesla or Toyota corporate. Unfortunately, there is no easy place to mount the socket (thanks Toyota), and you wouldn't want to replace the J1772 socket as then you wouldn't be able to charge at home anymore.

Michael Bornstein said:

As for the Chademo charger that some Leafs use, it would take more than a simple converter. The Chademo is 480VDV and the J1772 is 240VAC. Theoretically it could be done, but I wouldn't trust my local RAV4 EV dealer to play with the high voltage wiring involved. This would again be a job for Tesla or Toyota corporate. Unfortunately, there is no easy place to mount the socket (thanks Toyota), and you wouldn't want to replace the J1772 socket as then you wouldn't be able to charge at home anymore.

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Michael,

CHAdeMO is actually specified for 500 volts DC, but it's the car that controls the charger to specify how many volts (up to 500). The Rav4 EV battery is 386 volts DC.

Yes, it would be handy if Toyota (full member of CHAdeMO) or Tesla were to install the charger inlet, but they merely wanted a car to be sold for regulatory reasons. There is no regulatory credit given for a DC quick charge capability, so they didn't do it. Plus, they wouldn't want the car to become too popular and make problems selling their hydrogen car for 2015 and beyond.

With our JdeMO(tm) project to install CHAdeMO in the Rav4 EV, there is no involvement with Tesla or Toyota, or their dealers. We will mount the CHAdeMO socket under the hood; there is no change or interaction with the existing J1772 AC power inlet.

Michael Bornstein said:

theoretically you could install a Supercharger on a 40 kWh Model S

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Theoretically you could install a Supercharger port on any EV. There are just 3 problems to solve: you need a compatible inlet, a sufficient connection from that inlet to your battery, and the appropriate hardware/software to execute the protocol.

Any Model S (Supercharging-enabled or not) already has the inlet, but no other EV does, and Tesla won't sell it. The connection from inlet to battery is the (relatively) easy part - just wiring and connectors sized to handle the power throughput. The last part is the real problem. We might have a leg up over other EVs because the Rav uses the same charger as the Model S, which is involved in handling the Supercharger protocol (not actual charging), but if Tesla has a system that can distinguish between Model S's that are authorized for Supercharging and those that aren't (it's a $2500 option on the 60kwh S!), then you better believe they can tell when a non-Tesla is connected. Of course it might be possible to defeat their system, but doing so would clearly be illegal.

As for the Chademo charger that some Leafs use, it would take more than a simple converter.

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Making our cars work with ChaDeMo requires solving the same 3 problems. The difference is the inlet is readily available (but it's not cheap!) and the chargers are public (well I'm not sure how many Nissan dealers would like the idea of us charging there though...) The protocol stuff is not easy to figure out (this is what Tony's working on now I believe), but at least we don't have to commit fraud to get it to work.

The Chademo is 480VDV and the J1772 is 240VAC

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To be clear, adding quick charger support (whatever kind) requires a separate inlet that connects directly to the battery via high-voltage DC (more like ~390V, as Tony pointed out) - it's a separate system from the J1772 inlet and on-board charger (although those systems could somehow be involved in the protocol implementation.)

Actually I guess you could in theory put together a ChaDeMo inlet/controller with an inverter and EVSE that would allow you to take power supplied from the QC and pass it through your J1772 inlet, but that would be quite silly. It'd be a much more difficult device to build and would be limited by the capacity of your onboard charger (10kw in our case) when ChaDeMo can supply around 50kw.

fooljoe said:

ChaDeMo can supply around 50kw.

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There are ChaDeMo chargers that output less than 50kW. Some output 44kW and some output as little as 25kW. One of the DCFC manufacturers rationalized that since some cars taper so quickly down to that level, that there was no point to engineer it for more than 25kW. The Misubishi i comes to mind as a vehicle that can't take a lot of juice.

Michael Bornstein said:

Whether or not Tesla allows it is besides the point. RAV4 EV's don't have a Supercharger port. I once spoke to a Tesla tech and was told that theoretically you could install a Supercharger on a 40 kWh Model S (if they exist) even though Tesla doesn't market the ability. Therefore you could theoretically install a Supercharger on a RAV4 EV. Theory aside, would Tesla authorize the installation? I doubt it. I have heard that some Supercharger stations include a J1772 plug (specifically the one at Harris Ranch), though I haven't personally seen it. I know that the station at Laval Road doesn't have one.

As for the Chademo charger that some Leafs use, it would take more than a simple converter. The Chademo is 480VDV and the J1772 is 240VAC. Theoretically it could be done, but I wouldn't trust my local RAV4 EV dealer to play with the high voltage wiring involved. This would again be a job for Tesla or Toyota corporate. Unfortunately, there is no easy place to mount the socket (thanks Toyota), and you wouldn't want to replace the J1772 socket as then you wouldn't be able to charge at home anymore.

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I don't understand then why do I see a Tesla Model S being charged at a ChargePoint station, using the J1772 Plug if they are not compatible.
I guess Tesla wired the model S to use the J1772 and the supercharger.

jrustin22 said:

Michael Bornstein said:

Whether or not Tesla allows it is besides the point. RAV4 EV's don't have a Supercharger port. I once spoke to a Tesla tech and was told that theoretically you could install a Supercharger on a 40 kWh Model S (if they exist) even though Tesla doesn't market the ability. Therefore you could theoretically install a Supercharger on a RAV4 EV. Theory aside, would Tesla authorize the installation? I doubt it. I have heard that some Supercharger stations include a J1772 plug (specifically the one at Harris Ranch), though I haven't personally seen it. I know that the station at Laval Road doesn't have one.

As for the Chademo charger that some Leafs use, it would take more than a simple converter. The Chademo is 480VDV and the J1772 is 240VAC. Theoretically it could be done, but I wouldn't trust my local RAV4 EV dealer to play with the high voltage wiring involved. This would again be a job for Tesla or Toyota corporate. Unfortunately, there is no easy place to mount the socket (thanks Toyota), and you wouldn't want to replace the J1772 socket as then you wouldn't be able to charge at home anymore.

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I don't understand then why do I see a Tesla Model S being charged at a ChargePoint station, using the J1772 Plug if they are not compatible.
I guess Tesla wired the model S to use the J1772 and the supercharger.

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Tesla designed their car to take electricity from almost anywhere. Every car is delivered with a J1772 adapter and they have a half-dozen different wall plug adapters for their mobile charging cord (EVSE). They also have special high power contactors in the car to allow the SuperCharger to deliver DC current directly to the battery from the same charge port, bypassing the on-board charger. A Leaf does not have these contactors because it has separate charge ports for AC charging from the wall and DC charging from a CHAdeMO station.

Looking forward to hearing more about this.

TonyWilliams said:

With our JdeMO(tm) project to install CHAdeMO in the Rav4 EV, there is no involvement with Tesla or Toyota, or their dealers. We will mount the CHAdeMO socket under the hood; there is no change or interaction with the existing J1772 AC power inlet.

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I am not sure whether or not it is possible but I do know that Tesla and Toyota partnered up to make this car so that makes me wonder whether or not it would be possible to charge.

Bugatti said:

I am not sure whether or not it is possible but I do know that Tesla and Toyota partnered up to make this car so that makes me wonder whether or not it would be possible to charge.

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Toyota worked with Tesla to quickly make a compliance car. It was never their intention to make a viable long distance EV. That is the reason you don't see any quick charge connection on the RAV4 EV. Toyota is a member of the CHAdeMO alliance but they just didn't bother to engineer it into the car.