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 Post subject: Re: Traction Battery - Volts, Amps & SOC%, kWh, Rated Range
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:28 am 
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Location: San Diego
Kohler Controller wrote:
Tony, I think it has been stated that our cars use ~5000 cells (92S54P or 4968), not 4000.
Also the math works out better (3.6V x 2.9Ah = 10.44wh x 4968 = 51.8kWh).
At 46 g / cell (from NCR18650PD data sheet), that's 228kg/502lbs of cells alone or 62% of the 800lb battery system weight.


Toyota says 386 volts, but we have no idea what that's is supposed to mean.

92 * 4.13v (the highest that I've observed) = 380 volts

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 Post subject: Re: Traction Battery - Volts, Amps & SOC%, kWh, Rated Range
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:26 am
Posts: 305
Location: Austin, TX
According to Valerun, he observed a top Extended Charge CV at 381.5V.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=527&start=70

Assuming 92 cells in series at 3.6V/cell (rated from the datasheet), that's 331V nominal and 381 if Extended Charge is 4.13V/cell.

From my cell testing of the NCR18650PD cell, discharging at C/2 rate showed an average voltage of 3.6V between 4.2V-3V.

Toyota Documentation says 386V because 92S x 4.2V (maximum voltage a cell is allowed to be charged to from the manufacturer) is 386V.

So I'm pretty sure it is 92S. As for the number of cell in parallel, my money is on 53P which puts it about 49kWh, with 41.8kWh usable.

I'm pretty sure Tesla products are the same way, which is a 100kWh pack for the Model S85.

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Kohler Controller
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Cargo Liner
Modified 120VAC EVSE to also accept 240VAC
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 Post subject: Re: Traction Battery - Volts, Amps & SOC%, kWh, Rated Range
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1788
Location: Los Altos, CA
This is the graphic from TeslaMotorsClub that describes the Model S 85kWh battery capacity points.

Image

I suppose we would have the following levels in the RAV4 EV:
Extended Full
Standard Full
Low Battery Warning
Very Low Battery Warning
Climate Control Limited
Turtle
Shutdown

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 Post subject: Re: Traction Battery - Volts, Amps & SOC%, kWh, Rated Range
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:50 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:26 am
Posts: 305
Location: Austin, TX
Mimmura, have you or anyone else been able to put more than 83kWh back in a Model S85? (75.9 kwh /0.85 efficiency)

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Kohler Controller
Shoreline Blue
EVSE, AeroVironment 30A, 7.4kW
Reciever Hitch, CURT Class III Round Tube
Cargo Liner
Modified 120VAC EVSE to also accept 240VAC
Hood struts- Sokie Tech
JdeMO Level 3 Charging port
12.6kW PV system
VIN 1396
Austin, Texas


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 Post subject: Re: Traction Battery - Volts, Amps & SOC%, kWh, Rated Range
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:25 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1788
Location: Los Altos, CA
Kohler Controller wrote:
Mimmura, have you or anyone else been able to put more than 83kWh back in a Model S85? (75.9 kwh /0.85 efficiency)
I don't have a Model S and most people don't have energy monitors or dedicated meters on their EVSE to know for sure. Most of the time, people on TMC are going by the data shown by the car, not an external measurement.

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 Post subject: Re: Traction Battery - Volts, Amps & SOC%, kWh, Rated Range
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:26 am
Posts: 305
Location: Austin, TX
I thought the SuperChargers showed energy returned in the Model S. With all the power installed in your garage, I thought perhaps you had one. :D Thanks for the info.

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Kohler Controller
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EVSE, AeroVironment 30A, 7.4kW
Reciever Hitch, CURT Class III Round Tube
Cargo Liner
Modified 120VAC EVSE to also accept 240VAC
Hood struts- Sokie Tech
JdeMO Level 3 Charging port
12.6kW PV system
VIN 1396
Austin, Texas


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 Post subject: Re: Traction Battery - Volts, Amps & SOC%, kWh, Rated Range
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 621
Tony, Any chance you have calculated and compared your vehicle battery degradation and compared to this chart?

TonyWilliams wrote:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Traction Battery - Volts, Amps & SOC%, kWh, Rated Range
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:02 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4072
Location: San Diego
smkettner wrote:
Tony, Any chance you have calculated and compared your vehicle battery degradation and compared to this chart?



I wouldn't know how the cycles would be counted for 41,000 miles. Few people (maybe nobody) cycles their battery from full to empty every time, and neither do I.

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QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
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 Post subject: Re: Traction Battery - Volts, Amps & SOC%, kWh, Rated Range
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 621
Maybe count 41,000 at 120 miles per cycle would be 341 cycles would have you at ~87% capacity?

Trying to use the graph to extrapolate miles to 70% capacity. Looks like at least 150,000 miles.


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 Post subject: Re: Traction Battery - Volts, Amps & SOC%, kWh, Rated Range
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4072
Location: San Diego
Kohler Controller wrote:
... So I'm pretty sure it is 92S. As for the number of cell in parallel, my money is on 53P which puts it about 49kWh, with 41.8kWh usable.

I'm pretty sure Tesla products are the same way, which is a 100kWh pack for the Model S85.


I think you're probably right about 92S for the Rav4 EV, however we already know that the Tesla 85kWh pack is 96S, with 16 modules each of which have 6 "bricks" of 74 parallel cells.

7104 total cells = (6 * 16) * 74

4.15 volts per cell * 96 = 398.4 pack voltage (Tesla Model S-85)

4.15 volts per cell * 92 = 381.8 pack voltage (Rav4 EV)

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QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


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