Toyota Rav4 EV Forum

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 Post subject: ALL POSTS about Charge Timer Failure
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4115
Location: San Diego
This is an ongoing problem with many Rav4's. I'm getting tired of waking up to a car that isn't charged or preheated according to the car's onboard timer.

Here's my "proof" for today; I woke up, and checked on the car through EnTunes (like CarWings) only to find that the car had not started a charge for a 7am departure time. I was able to then successfully start a charge from the app (in other words, it was plugged in and the EVSE is working properly).

Of course, this would have been a disaster yesterday when the car was driven 194.4 miles. Another issue is that it's not very good at guessing the total time required to complete the charge, always guessing too much time, and therefore staring the charge far too early (when it works at all).

What I found at 5:40am:


Image



Car is successfully charging after sending a charge request from the EnTune app at 5:41am:


Image



Charge complete in 3 hours, 10 minutes, even though it guessed 5 hours 19 minutes:


Image

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tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
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 Post subject: Re: Charge Timer Failure
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:50 am
Posts: 1213
Location: San Jose, CA
Hi Tony. Yep, this has happened to me too several times as well. Either it fails to initiate a (scheduled) charge or starts way too early when it does! I agree, it is NOT the EVSE, it's something in the car that is screwing up. Other members are having this same problem, and at least one other member here (SeaMonster) has taken his RAV4 EV to Toyota for investigation. I believe in his case, Tesla was called in to assist in the investigation. I hope they will be able to find a fix that only requires a firmware reflash; a simple 5 minute update.

Stay tuned . . .

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Owner of 2012 Classic Silver RAV4 EV, 2012 Silver VOLT & 2008 Red C6 Z06
EMW JuiceBox Basic (fully optioned & customized) EVSE L2 charging station
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550


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 Post subject: Re: Charge Timer Failure
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4115
Location: San Diego
What dealer is handling SeaMonster's timer issue, so I can either go there, or tell my dealer (Carlsbad or Mossy)?

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Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


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 Post subject: Re: Charge Timer Failure
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:56 am
Posts: 140
Location: Tiburon, CA
Yes, my car has been with Toyota for over a week now for just this reason. They do not yet have an answer, and much of this is beyond them. But they have called Tesla in. Just like you, whenever the scheduled charge fails to happen, the Entune app can still happily start a charge manually. Toyota is aware of that. I have also reproduced the error in the loaner Rav4EV that I now have.

Tony, I see a clue in your post above. You had the charger failure the morning after a long drive. My car fails to charge almost every Tuesday and Wednesday and that is after my Monday and Tuesday commutes of over 110 miles. I started a spreadsheet that I have been really diligent in using to track down every factor that might be involved. The only consistent thing seems to be my long commute days. I doubt it is the miles driven, but instead the amount of charge time needed to refill. My theory is that during the night, there are momentary glitches in the car's reading of what the charger capacity is. I think the car is waiting for the proper start time for a 40 amp charger, and then at some point in the night gets an aberrant reading that either says it is a lower amperage or 110V. Based on that, the car decides that it can no longer charge the car in time for the 7am departure and the state machine moves on to the next departure schedule. Even if the car later reads the proper capacity, the timer has already moved onto the next day. This would also explain why some charges start too early. If the tank is not too empty, the aberrant reading would cause it to start charging early. For a more empty tank, the aberrant reading pushes things into the following day. That's my theory. I have asked them to instrument the car to monitor this constantly throughout the night. Toyota is trying to get Tesla to give them equipment that can do that. Tony, can your OBD stuff see the real-time charger information?

I'll update more as I learn if from Toyota.


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 Post subject: Re: Charge Timer Failure
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:56 am
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Location: Tiburon, CA
TonyWilliams wrote:
What dealer is handling SeaMonster's timer issue, so I can either go there, or tell my dealer (Carlsbad or Mossy)?


I'm at Toyota Marin. If they figure anything out, I'll let you know. I doubt having another car there would help. They have mine and I have proven to them that I can reproduce the behavior with their loaner which I currently have.


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 Post subject: Re: Charge Timer Failure
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:16 am 
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Location: San Jose, CA
SeaMonster, it's good the "loaner" demonstrates the same problem, so they will take that to mean this isn't just an isolated incident . . . ALL THESE CARS most likely have this same problem, which implies a "design problem".

Fwiw, I have been monitoring my overnight charging with a home energy (electricity) monitor. Quite often at somewhat random intervals, BEFORE charging initiates, I see small "spikes" on the AC line input to my charging station. I am not turning on/off any electric motors in my house that could be the cause of these spikes other than the refigerator compressor motor which automatically cycles on and off periodically all night long. Regardless of where these spikes are coming from, unless they are somehow filtered out by the charging station, they could be misinterpreted by the electronics in the car behind the J1772 charge port as some sort of abnormal condition, while still counting down and waiting for the actual command to initiate charging. The spikes are very small in amplitude and should not be causing aborts or false starts, but if coupled into the low voltage pilot control signals, in the J1772 connector, then who knows what might be happening to confuse the "scheduler" control electronics in the car.

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Owner of 2012 Classic Silver RAV4 EV, 2012 Silver VOLT & 2008 Red C6 Z06
EMW JuiceBox Basic (fully optioned & customized) EVSE L2 charging station
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550


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 Post subject: Re: Charge Timer Failure
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:35 am 
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I put an update in this post.


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 Post subject: Re: Charge Timer Failure
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:09 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:25 pm
Posts: 72
Seamonster I think you might have it right with the car skipping over the day due to a incorrect charge time. I was thinking that was what was happening after one night when I got home and plugged the car in around 1:00 am. I had a very low battery and the display on the dash gave a departure time two days out, it alo was showing a longer chage time than needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Charge Timer Failure
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:51 pm 
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Location: San Jose, CA
My experience with this problem basically translates to my RAV4 EV charging "scheduler" overestimating how long it takes to charge the car by at least 3 hours. Thus, it initiates charging 3 hours earlier than necessary, resulting in charge completion 3 hours ealier as well.

For example, if I want to schedule my next departure time at 7am the next morning, charging will be completed by 4am. Conversely, if I schedule completion at 10am, it completes by 7am.

Knowing this, I can "workaround" the problem by scheduling departures 3 hours "later" than the actual time of my departure. Of course, I am reluctant to do that because if the scheduler works as expected, and actually completes when scheduled, then I wind up paying higher electric rates between 7 and 10am on weekday mornings, or missing the opportunity to be fully charged entirely. :oops:

_________________
Owner of 2012 Classic Silver RAV4 EV, 2012 Silver VOLT & 2008 Red C6 Z06
EMW JuiceBox Basic (fully optioned & customized) EVSE L2 charging station
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550


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 Post subject: Re: Charge Timer Failure
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:20 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:17 am
Posts: 16
Location: Palo Alto
Dsinned wrote:
My experience with this problem basically translates to my RAV4 EV charging "scheduler" overestimating how long it takes to charge the car by at least 3 hours. Thus, it initiates charging 3 hours earlier than necessary, resulting in charge completion 3 hours ealier as well.

For example, if I want to schedule my next departure time at 7am the next morning, charging will be completed by 4am. Conversely, if I schedule completion at 10am, it completes by 7am.

Knowing this, I can "workaround" the problem by scheduling departures 3 hours "later" than the actual time of my departure. Of course, I am reluctant to do that because if the scheduler works as expected, and actually completes when scheduled, then I wind up paying higher electric rates between 7 and 10am on weekday mornings, or missing the opportunity to be fully charged entirely.. :oops:




Sometimes when you charge the car and leave it plugged in, the car does a subsequent, brief, charge, several hours after the primary charge is concluded. Maybe the car is balancing the battery after the main charge, and then once balanced does another "top-up" charge. If that is the case, maybe the scheduling is taking that into account and scheduling the charge so that the balancing and top-up charge can be complete prior to the departure time. I'm just speculating.

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