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 Post subject: Extended Charge not working
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:48 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:41 am
Posts: 9
Hello all.
My 2013 Rav4 EV does not do an Extended charge. I get the same range (~65 miles) whether I use Extended or Regular charging. If I do a Regular charge, then select Extended charge, the charger clicks off after a few minutes with a additional mile of range.

It seems the charger is working, but only to 70% charge. It's been to the dealer twice. They say diagnostics show no problem and the reason the Extended charge and regular charge are the same is due to "battery degradation".


Any ideas how I can get a full charge? Thanks, Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Extended Charge not working
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:43 am
Posts: 284
Location: Redwood City, CA
atzmark wrote:
Hello all.

It seems the charger is working, but only to 70% charge. It's been to the dealer twice. They say diagnostics show no problem and the reason the Extended charge and regular charge are the same is due to "battery degradation".


Any ideas how I can get a full charge? Thanks, Mark


You have verified that the on-board charger is working, so the dealer will not be helpful (nothing broken to fix). You should do the "Tony Test" to measure the battery capacity if you want to pursue this further. See viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1625

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 Post subject: Re: Extended Charge not working
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:42 pm
Posts: 314
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
As the battery degrades, extended charge reduces closer and closer to being the same as regular charge. Try the Tony Test suggested above. I suspect you will find that your battery has simply degraded to the point where you have virtually no "extended" room left.


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 Post subject: Re: Extended Charge not working
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:41 am
Posts: 9
Thanks for the info...the next step seems to do the "Tony Test" for some numbers.

I don't understand the "battery degradation" explanation. My understanding is that a "regular" 70% charge is used to help reduce battery degradation. Meaning that if the battery has degraded from 42 to 21 kWh, 70% would use ~14 kWh, and using ~20 kWh for an extended charge.

One response implies that charging system has no idea of the actual (degraded) battery capacity. That as the battery degrades "regular " (30kWh) charging rises from 70% to 100% (or more)of the battery capacity (30kWh). Is the charging system that dumb and harmful to a degraded battery?

Thanks again for the input.


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 Post subject: Re: Extended Charge not working
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:43 am
Posts: 284
Location: Redwood City, CA
[quote="atzmark"I don't understand the "battery degradation" explanation. My understanding is that a "regular" 70% charge is used to help reduce battery degradation. Meaning that if the battery has degraded from 42 to 21 kWh, 70% would use ~14 kWh, and using ~20 kWh for an extended charge.

One response implies that charging system has no idea of the actual (degraded) battery capacity. That as the battery degrades "regular " (30kWh) charging rises from 70% to 100% (or more)of the battery capacity (30kWh). Is the charging system that dumb and harmful to a degraded battery?
[/quote]

That is not the situation. Other information on this site (e.g., Tony's RAV4 Range Chart) shows the nominal extended charge capacity at 41.8 kWh and the standard charge capacity at 35.0 kWh. Thus the standard charge is ~84% of the extended when new.

Driving style variations may also be causing some minor masking of standard and extended charge capacities. The Tony test eliminates this by using a constant conversion between kWh and range.

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 Post subject: Re: Extended Charge not working
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:42 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 631
Extended range working or not is just not going to add much anyway. You will get 4 to 8 miles extra, big whoop. And maybe none at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Extended Charge not working
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:41 am
Posts: 9
I'm still confused. Using the tgreene's numbers of 41.8 and 35 kWh for normal and extended charge.

If the battery is 50% degraded, then an normal charge would be 17.5 kWh, an extended charge 20.6 kWh.
And it would take 30min-hour to add those 4 kWh.

Other responses imply that Only the Extended chaged is reduced to zero as the batttery degrades. Once the battery degraged to 70% or more extended "stops working", and at 60% the battery is being overcharged, accelerating battery degration.


So does the onboard charger adjust as the capacity of the battery changes, charging it to 70% of (degraded) capacity, or not?

Thanks, Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Extended Charge not working
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 631
Just drive. Enjoy the car. It is what it is.

Or trade it in... is what I did.


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 Post subject: Re: Extended Charge not working
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:30 pm
Posts: 279
Location: San Diego Co
atzmark wrote:
I'm still confused. Using the tgreene's numbers of 41.8 and 35 kWh for normal and extended charge.

If the battery is 50% degraded, then an normal charge would be 17.5 kWh, an extended charge 20.6 kWh.
And it would take 30min-hour to add those 4 kWh.

Other responses imply that Only the Extended chaged is reduced to zero as the batttery degrades. Once the battery degraged to 70% or more extended "stops working", and at 60% the battery is being overcharged, accelerating battery degration.


So does the onboard charger adjust as the capacity of the battery changes, charging it to 70% of (degraded) capacity, or not?

Thanks, Mark


Sorry, you are missing the way it works. Normal charging will take the battery to 35 kWh. Extended charge will take it above that to 100% capacity. When new that is 41.8 kWh. As the battery degrades, normal charge will still charge to 35 kWh, but extended charge is reduced. With further degradation, below 35kWh total capacity, a normal charge will charge to the max battery capacity (100%), whatever that might be.

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 Post subject: Re: Extended Charge not working
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:41 am
Posts: 9
Thanks for the clarification.

I'm surprised that with 15% or more degradation the battery is being charge to 100% capacity, or essentially an Extended charge. My owners manual says this can/will shorten the life of the battery, as opposed to an 85% capacity charge.

Any way to keep from cooking the battery to 100% charge every time it's charged?


Thanks for the info, Mark


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