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 Post subject: Drive Train Vibration
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:30 pm
Posts: 263
Location: San Diego Co
I have a 2014 Rav4 EV with ~65k miles. Drive Unit was replaced in 2016, around 25k miles. Over the past 5K miles I'm noticing a new vibration that slowly seems to be getting progressively worse.

When driving on a smooth surface, like good asphalt, the car is very smooth. If I accelerate in the 50 - 60 mph range I notice a vibration in the steering wheel as if I suddenly transitioned to a rough road surface. When I let off the accelerator the vibration goes away and it feels smooth again.

This started as barely perceptible but is now perceptible, reproduce able and very slowly getting worse. It is prevalent in the ~50 to 70 mph range and gets worse with heavier acceleration.

Anyone with similar experience? Opinions as to cause?

- Thanks.

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8/12/14 RAV4 EV #3008, Blizzard Pearl
9kW Solar Electric System
SDGE TOU metering
OpenEVSE 40 amp

"Aquaponics...solar-powered nanotechnology that produces fresh vegetables and meat, while purifying water..." - Rick Op, Houston Texas.


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 Post subject: Re: Drive Train Vibration
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:29 am 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 4:49 am
Posts: 601
Location: Ithaca, NY
dstjohn99 wrote:
I have a 2014 Rav4 EV with ~65k miles. Drive Unit was replaced in 2016, around 25k miles. Over the past 5K miles I'm noticing a new vibration that slowly seems to be getting progressively worse.

When driving on a smooth surface, like good asphalt, the car is very smooth. If I accelerate in the 50 - 60 mph range I notice a vibration in the steering wheel as if I suddenly transitioned to a rough road surface. When I let off the accelerator the vibration goes away and it feels smooth again.

This started as barely perceptible but is now perceptible, reproduce able and very slowly getting worse. It is prevalent in the ~50 to 70 mph range and gets worse with heavier acceleration.

Anyone with similar experience? Opinions as to cause?

- Thanks.


The tires could be out of balance. Have them checked out. That would be the easiest and cheapest problem to fix so lets hope thats what it is.

_________________
2014 Rav EV #3364
2012 Plug in Prius

OpenEVSE builds
priuschat.com/threads/my-openevse-build.115573/#post-1647089
Dual voltage, portable 40amp Openevse
myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1013&start=120


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 Post subject: Re: Drive Train Vibration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:30 pm
Posts: 263
Location: San Diego Co
jimbo69ny wrote:

The tires could be out of balance. Have them checked out. That would be the easiest and cheapest problem to fix so lets hope thats what it is.


Thanks, I rotate and balance the tires every 5000 mi. Next one due in about 1000 mi. So we will see if that helps.

_________________
8/12/14 RAV4 EV #3008, Blizzard Pearl
9kW Solar Electric System
SDGE TOU metering
OpenEVSE 40 amp

"Aquaponics...solar-powered nanotechnology that produces fresh vegetables and meat, while purifying water..." - Rick Op, Houston Texas.


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 Post subject: Re: Drive Train Vibration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 4:49 am
Posts: 601
Location: Ithaca, NY
dstjohn99 wrote:
jimbo69ny wrote:

The tires could be out of balance. Have them checked out. That would be the easiest and cheapest problem to fix so lets hope thats what it is.


Thanks, I rotate and balance the tires every 5000 mi. Next one due in about 1000 mi. So we will see if that helps.


Not just rotating them. You could’ve lost a wheel weight. They won’t balance tires during a rotation unless you ask them to.

_________________
2014 Rav EV #3364
2012 Plug in Prius

OpenEVSE builds
priuschat.com/threads/my-openevse-build.115573/#post-1647089
Dual voltage, portable 40amp Openevse
myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1013&start=120


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 Post subject: Re: Drive Train Vibration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:42 pm
Posts: 285
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
jimbo69ny wrote:
dstjohn99 wrote:
jimbo69ny wrote:

The tires could be out of balance. Have them checked out. That would be the easiest and cheapest problem to fix so lets hope thats what it is.


Thanks, I rotate and balance the tires every 5000 mi. Next one due in about 1000 mi. So we will see if that helps.


Not just rotating them. You could’ve lost a wheel weight. They won’t balance tires during a rotation unless you ask them to.

I wouldn't wait for another 1000 miles. I'd have the tire shop check it ASAP. If that's not the problem, then you need to know that soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Drive Train Vibration
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:57 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Salisbury, NC
This is not a tire issue: tires that are out of balance will not improve from lifting the throttle.

Possible culprits: worn tie rod, wheel bearing, ball joint, suspension bushings, CV joint, or internal issues with the motor. The first four you can check by jacking up each of the front wheels one at a time, grab the tire at the top and bottom (then again at front and back) and check for any free play. With the motor in neutral, spin the tire and listen for any noise at the wheel hub. While you've got things jacked up, do a visual inspection of all the suspension components, looking for things like torn boots or an accumulation of grease somewhere. You can check CV joints by making tight turns at slow speed, and listen (windows down) for loud clicking noises. Any reputable mechanic should also be able to check out all these components.

Unfortunately I suspect it may be the drive unit, particularly as you indicate things are getting notably worse in a short amount of time. It could be the bearings going out, and the increase in free play is being heard/felt since tolerances are pretty tight. If you're mechanically inclined, there is a recent post about how you can replace the bearings and seals yourself; otherwise there are vendors that offer this service.


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 Post subject: Re: Drive Train Vibration
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:09 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:55 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Duvall, Wash.
Vibration amplitude varies with accelerator input? I'll put five bucks on CV joints or motor mount(s).

No wheel balance or wheel alignment issue will be affected by changing the torque input (accelerator).

Tie rod or suspension bushing issues at 65k? Not likely, unless you're driving in Montreal this winter :(

But the Tesla propulsion unit puts out a lot of torque that is probably used more often than the ICE version, and I somehow doubt that Toyota uprated the CV joints.

I have 69k on mine, and I notice at 40-60 that when accelerating at more than modest rate, on a smooth road I can feel a vibration whose frequency is close to wheel speed, and it disappears if I back off the accel pedal. I think I've got a bad 'un too: CV joint or motor mount.

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Regards,
Al Savage
2014 Rav4 EV, Shoreline Blue Pearl, #2609, first use 04Jun2014, 49k miles (Aug2017), OpenEVSE 40A. First DU replacement May2018 59k.
2018 Model 3 LR AWD, blue. 9.6kw solar
1999 E300 on B100 (sold Sep2018)
http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org


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 Post subject: Re: Drive Train Vibration
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:45 am 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 4:49 am
Posts: 601
Location: Ithaca, NY
asavage wrote:
Vibration amplitude varies with accelerator input? I'll put five bucks on CV joints or motor mount(s).

No wheel balance or wheel alignment issue will be affected by changing the torque input (accelerator).

Tie rod or suspension bushing issues at 65k? Not likely, unless you're driving in Montreal this winter :(

But the Tesla propulsion unit puts out a lot of torque that is probably used more often than the ICE version, and I somehow doubt that Toyota uprated the CV joints.

I have 69k on mine, and I notice at 40-60 that when accelerating at more than modest rate, on a smooth road I can feel a vibration whose frequency is close to wheel speed, and it disappears if I back off the accel pedal. I think I've got a bad 'un too: CV joint or motor mount.


Everyone can have their opinions and any one of you could be right. This is an odd case that I personally haven't heard of before. With that said, I'd start with the cheapest option possible, a tire balance check. That might not be it, it could be much worse like other commenters have said, IMHO a balance check is the first thing that should be done.

_________________
2014 Rav EV #3364
2012 Plug in Prius

OpenEVSE builds
priuschat.com/threads/my-openevse-build.115573/#post-1647089
Dual voltage, portable 40amp Openevse
myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1013&start=120


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 Post subject: Re: Drive Train Vibration
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:55 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Duvall, Wash.
Wheel balance will never change vibration amplitude with torque change. Wheel balance is what it is, it'll shake enough to feel at a given speed, or it won't. Moving the accel pedal will have zero effect.

_________________
Regards,
Al Savage
2014 Rav4 EV, Shoreline Blue Pearl, #2609, first use 04Jun2014, 49k miles (Aug2017), OpenEVSE 40A. First DU replacement May2018 59k.
2018 Model 3 LR AWD, blue. 9.6kw solar
1999 E300 on B100 (sold Sep2018)
http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org


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 Post subject: Re: Drive Train Vibration
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:55 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Duvall, Wash.
asavage wrote:
. . . CV joints or motor mount(s).


I should venture here that there probably aren't any conventional motor mounts on the Tesla DU. I was applying ICE experience to an EV situation.

_________________
Regards,
Al Savage
2014 Rav4 EV, Shoreline Blue Pearl, #2609, first use 04Jun2014, 49k miles (Aug2017), OpenEVSE 40A. First DU replacement May2018 59k.
2018 Model 3 LR AWD, blue. 9.6kw solar
1999 E300 on B100 (sold Sep2018)
http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org


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