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 Post subject: Re: Milling noise FIX
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:54 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1873
Location: Los Altos, CA
asavage wrote:
I have been told that the Tony's FB group is private. Not a company communication channel, then.

Private groups in Facebook just require a request to join the group. There are usually simple questions so that the group admins and moderators can weed out the spammers and fake users. The information inside the group can only be viewed by members of the group, it usually cannot be seen by non-members and scraping bots. However, as you indicate, it's no substitute for a business web site.

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2012 Shoreline Blue #1462 w/JdeMO | 2018 Tesla Model 3 LR | 4.32kW Motech/Enphase PV Solar + 2x Powerwall 2 AC| Leviton EVB40 40A & Jesla Home Charging | 2015 e-Golf LE (returned)


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 Post subject: Re: Milling noise FIX
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:55 pm
Posts: 256
Location: Duvall, Wash.
Thx for the explanation of how FB Private groups (forums) work.

I've run a phpbb website since 2006. That's forum software, the same as this site actually, though mine is several security versions newer than myrav4ev.com . It has an option for private forums, and I do have one that's just for myself and a couple of friends, for very non-public information sharing about house renovations etc. Nothing nefarious, just stuff I would otherwise use something like Dropbox for.

However, because it's private it is useless for either communication with public or knowledge sharing beyond the circle. I've got thousands of posts and pictures that are publicly searchable and useful to anyone looking for an answer to their question. I welcome 'bots scraping my content, because the forums I run are not a profit center for me. People can get at what they want without becoming data for a corporation whose sole purpose is to sell data about you.

Whatever is posted behind FB's private forums is useless to the wider world unless someone joins their club . . . and becomes data for FB to package and sell.

Sorry, OP, for vectoring so far off topic.

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Regards,
Al Savage
2014 Rav4 EV, Shoreline Blue Pearl, #2609, first use 04Jun2014, 49k miles (Aug2017), OpenEVSE 40A. First DU replacement May2018 59k.
2018 Model 3 LR AWD, blue. 9.6kw solar
1999 E300 on B100 (sold Sep2018)
http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org


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 Post subject: Re: Milling noise FIX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:55 pm
Posts: 256
Location: Duvall, Wash.
Schenkzoola wrote:
Only one mechanical seal is required to seal the rotating motor shaft. Unfortunately for me, this seal had failed, and I could not find a direct replacement. The seal dimensions are 30x55x8mm. It is a double-lip teflon seal with an excluder. If you happen to know where I could get these, please let me know!

Due to the high surface speed, I do believe that a Teflon seal is the correct choice here. I did my best to find something suitable that I could buy off the shelf.


Without hits: I looked at Garlock, Chicago Rawhide (SKF), and Parker so far. It looks like Parker might have used to have that seal, but as of Dec2020 they've dropped the PTFE product in the FlexiCase (metal case) configuration.

So far, only this Chenming seal:

(wait for it to load)
Image

It's dual-lip (in single direction) with excluder (in other direction). But I'm much more comfortable with seal manufacturers whose products I've used or at least heard of before.

Folks who are repairing these are keeping the info close, I suppose.

[later]
Lemming Co./elastoring.eu 48001848, but has no lip configuration info.
Image

_________________
Regards,
Al Savage
2014 Rav4 EV, Shoreline Blue Pearl, #2609, first use 04Jun2014, 49k miles (Aug2017), OpenEVSE 40A. First DU replacement May2018 59k.
2018 Model 3 LR AWD, blue. 9.6kw solar
1999 E300 on B100 (sold Sep2018)
http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org


Last edited by asavage on Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Milling noise FIX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:46 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Ukraine
asavage wrote:
... Folks who are repairing these are keeping the info close, I suppose.
and / or buy there and then resell (IMO).
Note. The Rotor requires 2 teflon seals: 36*67*8 and 30*55*8.

For reference.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A6n ... 2qzGA/edit
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN ... SV4JfflioQ


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 Post subject: Re: Milling noise FIX
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:55 pm
Posts: 256
Location: Duvall, Wash.
Your last link is a 404.

Nathan/Schenkzoola's pictures do not, unfortunately, show the 36*67*8 seal on the gearbox end of the rotor (though I can just make out the brushes).

Image Image

He does not mention replacing the seal on that end. Presumably, its function is to keep ATF from the gearbox from infiltrating the brushes and stator cavity.

I haven't seen pictures of that larger seal, nor of the brushes better than those.

He's replaced the original rotor bearings SKF BB1-3793 (assumed ceramic balls) with similar spec 6007-2RZTN9/HC5C3WT (definitely ceramic balls).

Image

Alex UA says he replaced the gearbox pinion (gearbox input) bearings with ceramic ball bearings as well, but to me that implies that if the rotor shaft brushes are not doing their job, and induced current cannot be diverted to case ground via the brushes, and both the two rotor bearings and the gearbox input bearings are electrically isolated by ceramic balls, then the gear input pinion gear teeth become the next least-resistance conductor. I think I'd rather sacrifice the ball bearings.

_________________
Regards,
Al Savage
2014 Rav4 EV, Shoreline Blue Pearl, #2609, first use 04Jun2014, 49k miles (Aug2017), OpenEVSE 40A. First DU replacement May2018 59k.
2018 Model 3 LR AWD, blue. 9.6kw solar
1999 E300 on B100 (sold Sep2018)
http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org


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 Post subject: Re: Milling noise FIX
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:46 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Ukraine
asavage wrote:
.... I think I'd rather sacrifice the ball bearings.
Where are the brushes in this motor? Please, show their photos?.
Image,
https://youtu.be/AQqyGNOP_3o

Just checked both links and they work.


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 Post subject: Re: Milling noise FIX
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:55 pm
Posts: 256
Location: Duvall, Wash.
Tiny circumferential brushes are shown in the first picture, my previous post. They surround the shaft. Click on the picture (it’s a link to a larger version) and zoom in. It’s not a great pic, but it’s what I have.

The brushes are not there for motive power transfer.

Your second link is still a 404 here. Both on my phone, and my home network.

_________________
Regards,
Al Savage
2014 Rav4 EV, Shoreline Blue Pearl, #2609, first use 04Jun2014, 49k miles (Aug2017), OpenEVSE 40A. First DU replacement May2018 59k.
2018 Model 3 LR AWD, blue. 9.6kw solar
1999 E300 on B100 (sold Sep2018)
http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org


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 Post subject: Re: Milling noise FIX
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:46 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Ukraine
asavage wrote:
Tiny circumferential brushes are shown in the first picture, my previous post. They surround the shaft. Click on the picture (it’s a link to a larger version) and zoom in. It’s not a great pic, but it’s what I have.
The brushes are not there for motive power transfer.
Your second link is still a 404 here. Both on my phone, and my home network.
Apparently, after the translation, we have a different understanding of the term "brushes" :(
I understand this
Image

Try https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN ... 4xRzFkWmtB


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 Post subject: Re: Milling noise FIX
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:55 pm
Posts: 256
Location: Duvall, Wash.
That link works. It's a link to the same photos Nathan posted in the first post of this thread, though. And, that's where I borrowed the two pictures of the rotor drive end bearing and brushes above.

Jack Rickard of EVTV talks about a Helwig Carbon Products rep talking about induction motor bearing protection brushes for safely diverting stray induced rotor current to ground, and Jack mentions that the rep intimated that he consulted with Tesla on this practice.

The general idea looks like this, though the Tesla Model S LRU's brushes don't look anything like this:

Image

Jack talks specifically about the LRU brushes here, but still only fuzzy pictures of the thing, not even as good as Nathan's above.

An interesting article about ceramic ball bearings and EVs: https://chargedevs.com/features/ev-moto ... ing-parts/

----------------------------------------------------------------------

This discussion of bearing protection brushes brought to mind my experience with my '59 Cadillac Eldorado Seville, which I owned in 1980-81.

For many years, Cadillac installed a "radio static collector" spring in the front wheel bearing grease cap. At some point, this spring was discontinued, but I was sufficiently surprised by seeing one installed that the memory remains more than forty years later.

Image
Image

As shown in the exploded view above, Cadillacs through 1959 used ball bearings on the front wheel hubs. These had a short service life. For 1960, Cadillac finally updated to roller bearings. More friction but also more bearing contact area. After two ball bearing failures on mine, it was upgraded to a pair of junkyard-sourced 1961 DeVille front hubs :) Much improved durability. I sold the car in late 1981, I believe.

_________________
Regards,
Al Savage
2014 Rav4 EV, Shoreline Blue Pearl, #2609, first use 04Jun2014, 49k miles (Aug2017), OpenEVSE 40A. First DU replacement May2018 59k.
2018 Model 3 LR AWD, blue. 9.6kw solar
1999 E300 on B100 (sold Sep2018)
http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org


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 Post subject: Re: Milling noise FIX
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:46 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Ukraine
Thank for Clarification.
For devices that protect against electromagnetic waves, we use the term "ekran" ("shield")
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_shielding

Video to RAV4EV Ceramic Bearing
https://youtu.be/C8oxv7ILcHU


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