Toyota Rav4 EV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: Cannot charge (1/2 OFF)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:46 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Ukraine
asavage wrote:
The dealership system in the US is generally corrupt. Now that proprietary tools -- beyond legal requirement of the OBDII legislation -- are required to perform diagnostics, and again proprietary equipment to encode/flash/marry new or used replacement parts to work with a vehicle's other systems, this bottleneck/stranglehold has gotten much worse in the past two decades.

Even Tesla participates in this system, requiring USD$100/day for access to online parts/service information, and they only allowed even that because of legislation in Massachusetts.

Twenty years ago, I was very much of the philosophy that, "if you use the software, pay for the software". Times have changed, and bless the hackers that make these proprietary, expensive, or unavailable software tools now available for my personal use. Frankly, I feel better paying a hacker "crook" for a tool to allow me to repair my own vehicle, than paying a corrupt system to do the same.

Alas, yes, unfortunately, so far (?) These and similar rules are not extended to Tesla
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Toyota has much more affordable prices https://techinfo.snapon.com/TIS/Register.aspx (NA),
https://www.toyota-tech.eu/DiagnosticTools/Setup (EU).
For comparison, the current prices for access to Tesla information https://service.teslamotors.com/
And it is unclear how an independent technician can get access to it. And is there access to Tool Box soft.


Let me know if You will need diagnostics (remote) of Tesla Systems of yours RAV4EV.


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 Post subject: Re: Cannot charge
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:55 pm
Posts: 243
Location: Duvall, Wash.
dstjohn99 wrote:
I have photos of the charger fuse location and some steps along the way. I will say that it was necessary (and arduous) to completely remove the on-board charger from the Rav4. Then the top cover is removed and several other connections are removed. Finally you are able to remove the charger housing from the base plate. But there are still more screws/connectors to remove the insulation cover over the fuses without damage, and finally test and replace the fuses.

It is no easy task, and now that I know how to do it, it would likely still take 6 to eight hours to complete start to finish. Below is a link to some photos that may be helpful.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kTX7tUQfBnt8aVAZ9


Because Google just sent me a notification of a change to their data retention policy (all your data is wiped if you don't log in for two years, amongst other things), I've saved dstjohn99's pics off to my own storehouse. (Sorry, mobile users; this forum doesn't use a lightbox or similar image resizing tool, though many are available for phpbb, and I'm too lazy to create and link thumbnails)

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_________________
Regards,
Al Savage
2014 Rav4 EV, Shoreline Blue Pearl, #2609, first use 04Jun2014, 49k miles (Aug2017), OpenEVSE 40A. First DU replacement May2018 59k.
2018 Model 3 LR AWD, blue. 9.6kw solar
1999 E300 on B100 (sold Sep2018)
http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org


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 Post subject: Re: Cannot charge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:38 pm
Posts: 25
asavage wrote:
That "portable" model is not different from the non-portable model, except it has no display. I recommend springing for the one with the display, as even with visible feedback setting up the wi-fi does not always go smoothly IME.

As for the 14-50 to 10-30P adapter, HD's price is pretty high IMO; you might scan some of these alternatives (watch out for the variety of different 10-30P plugs, though).


Thanks for the pointer. I reached out to the OpenEVSE folks and they recommended I get this, so that's what I'm going with:

https://www.evseadapters.com/products/n ... r-adapter/

You're right, HD is overpriced.


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 Post subject: Re: Cannot charge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:10 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:38 pm
Posts: 25
alflash wrote:
10basetom wrote:
After resetting the charging error code, the car was able to be charged normally again at the dealership. This suggests something is wrong with my EVSE, so I will look to replace it.
...
Questions to my understanding. I understand correctly that you are categorically refused to tell you which code (from the "CHG_ ..." series) was read?
Was "charged normally again at the dealership" with their charger or yours?

External symptom of malfunction (stop charging) simultaneous blinking of both charging mode indicators for 10 seconds (19 times) or do they just go out (off)?


I've asked on multiple occasions what the exact codes were, but the service manager at Tustin Toyota said sorry the only information he can provide is whatever the technician noted down in the invoice (shared in an earlier post). I asked if I could contact the technician directly via email or phone and was shot down immediately. The only times when I've been able to get exact codes is when I brought the car to an independent auto repair shop.

Regarding "charged normally again at the dealership" comment, I'll describe the exact order of events to provide some context:

The car was originally serviced at Tustin Toyota. The first night I got it back, I plugged it in again, and it exhibited the exact same issue as before (it would make that whirling sound as it's preparing to charge like normal, but after about 5s both lights flash 4-6 times and the car stops charging with "charging stopped by system malfunction" error in dashboard). I removed the nozzle and reinserted it a couple times with no luck. Next, I unplugged the EVSE (16amp Duosida) from the NEMA 10-30 outlet and replugged it a minute later; then reinserted the nozzle again, and this time it started charging without issues, all the way to 80%. I thought cool, they really fixed it, then proceeded to drive it down to 20 miles of range. When I tried to charge it, that's why I faced the exact same issue again; however, this time unplugging and replugging the EVSE didn't solve anything. This was when I decided to bring it back to Tustin Toyota. Since I didn't think I had enough range to make it to Tustin, I instead took the car 5 miles down to Irvine Toyota (AutoNation) to try and charge at their charging station. The car had the same issue charging; that's when I decided to have Irvine Toyota diagnose it and tell me exactly what code was tripped, so I left the car there for servicing. When I got home, the service manager called me and said the car is not able to charge likely because of the error code that was tripped when I tried to plug it in at home (same error as shown in photo below). He told me he didn't want to charge me $180 or so to diagnose this, so I should bring it to Tustin since they should be able to re-diagnose & reset it for free. The next day when I came to pick up my car in Irvine, I noticed that error in the dashboard went away. To test out the service manager's theory, I told him to try charging the car again, and sure enough, it was charging normally again. He was nice enough to let me leave the car there one more night so it can charge to 80% again. I picked up the car the next day, and now it's back in my garage, and that's where we are today.

Judgment Day comes when I receive the new EVSE: if it has the same charging issue, then we're back to square one lol. If that happens, I guess I might invest in an OBD scanner to get the codes myself. Can you guys recommend a good, reliable model? I currently have my eyes set on the Innova CarScan Pro Model 5610, which was recently voted "best overall" by Roadshow.

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Last edited by 10basetom on Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cannot charge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:55 pm
Posts: 243
Location: Duvall, Wash.
10basetom wrote:
I reached out to the OpenEVSE folks and they recommended I get this, so that's what I'm going with:

https://www.evseadapters.com/products/n ... 0r-adapter

That's better :)

10basetom wrote:
You're right, HD is overpriced.

Well, they're convenient and are open at odd hours, so they've got that going for them. I actually special order a lot of stuff through them. Their curbside pickup tends to suck, though; not using that again. Their pickup lockers are convenient, but like a lot of folks I've been doing a lot of DIY home projects and that tends to require bulky things, so lockers . . . not so useful.

_________________
Regards,
Al Savage
2014 Rav4 EV, Shoreline Blue Pearl, #2609, first use 04Jun2014, 49k miles (Aug2017), OpenEVSE 40A. First DU replacement May2018 59k.
2018 Model 3 LR AWD, blue. 9.6kw solar
1999 E300 on B100 (sold Sep2018)
http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org


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 Post subject: Re: Cannot charge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:42 pm
Posts: 321
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
10basetom wrote:
...
Judgment Day comes when I receive the new EVSE: if it has the same charging issue, then we're back to square one lol. If that happens, I guess I might invest in an OBD scanner to get the codes myself. Can you guys recommend a good, reliable model? I currently have my eyes set on the Innova CarScan Pro Model 5610, which was recently voted "best overall" by Roadshow.


It doesn't have to be the EVSE, it could be your wiring. I'd take a hard look at the outlet and it's connections as well as connections back at the panel. A dodgy connection might act exactly like this. Also, using a 10-30 requires repurposing the neutral as a ground, which is normally not a problem, BUT... if the 10-30 is coming from a subpanel, you can have problems because the neutral isn't bonded to ground until you get back to the main panel, so you can have messy return voltages on the neutral.

If that's the case and you don't need to use this outlet for anything else, you could change it to a 6-30. You'd wrap the neutral with green tape at each end and move it from the neutral bar to the ground bar at the panel.


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 Post subject: Re: Cannot charge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:46 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Ukraine
Please clarify. Before stopping HV charging, are the side indicators flashing (19 times and 10 seconds) or do they just go out?
Was there any diagnostics (at least reading the codes) of Tesla systems?
For example, Image

Notes.
OBD2 scanner will only be able to show fault codes that are recorded in Toyota systems.
If there is a Check EV System message, then Toyota will have the P312F code*, which records only the presence of a malfunction in Tesla's systems (which Toyota refers to as Electric Propulsion Control System).
For diagnostics** of Teslas DTC, Live Data, etc. this software need used
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To determine the cause of the charging malfunction, it is imperative to read (know) which malfunction codes are recorded in the Tesla system, since the codes received from the Toyota system in this case are not very informative (with rare exceptions).

*
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**
If need we can do your car remote diagnostic of RAV4EV Teslas systems.


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 Post subject: Re: Cannot charge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1864
Location: Los Altos, CA
10basetom wrote:
Judgment Day comes when I receive the new EVSE: if it has the same charging issue, then we're back to square one lol. If that happens, I guess I might invest in an OBD scanner to get the codes myself. Can you guys recommend a good, reliable model? I currently have my eyes set on the Innova CarScan Pro Model 5610, which was recently voted "best overall" by Roadshow.

Don't waste your money on a third party OBD scanner for the EV. It is not too expensive to get a OBD computer interface for Toyota Techstream. That will show everything on the Toyota side of the car and is the only useful thing you can easily buy. However, as @alflash showed, most of the useful stuff is only available in the restricted Tesla Powertrain Diagnostics program that communicates on the rear DLC connector.

_________________
2012 Shoreline Blue #1462 w/JdeMO | 2018 Tesla Model 3 LR | 4.32kW Motech/Enphase PV Solar + 2x Powerwall 2 AC| Leviton EVB40 40A & Jesla Home Charging | 2015 e-Golf LE (returned)


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 Post subject: Re: Cannot charge
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:38 pm
Posts: 25
Thank you, @davewill, @alflash, and @miimura -- very useful information!

alflash wrote:
Before stopping HV charging, are the side indicators flashing (19 times and 10 seconds) or do they just go out?

The side indicators just turned off after both were flashing 3-5 seconds; they definitely did not flash 19 times / 10 seconds.

CORRECTION: I just plugged in the Duosida EVSE and counted the number of blinks before charging shut down -- it DID flash 19 times, so the statement above is incorrect.

davewill wrote:
It doesn't have to be the EVSE, it could be your wiring. I'd take a hard look at the outlet and it's connections as well as connections back at the panel. A dodgy connection might act exactly like this. Also, using a 10-30 requires repurposing the neutral as a ground, which is normally not a problem, BUT... if the 10-30 is coming from a subpanel, you can have problems because the neutral isn't bonded to ground until you get back to the main panel, so you can have messy return voltages on the neutral.

If that's the case and you don't need to use this outlet for anything else, you could change it to a 6-30. You'd wrap the neutral with green tape at each end and move it from the neutral bar to the ground bar at the panel.


Now that you mentioned this, I just recalled that this charging issue started happening not soon after I suffered two rolling blackouts because of the recent California brush fires. In both cases the Duosida EVSE was plugged into the outlet (but not charging); before this I have had no issues charging the car for almost a year. I think it's probably a good idea to have a certified electrician inspect this to be safe. Regarding the grounding, I wasn't aware that was a potential issue since I was able to use the Duosida EVSE with no issues before by plugging it directly into the 10-30. While looking at the 10-30 to 14-50 adapter, I came across this little nugget:

"It’s a common misconception that 10-30 outlets aren’t grounded. Actually they are grounded, but not in the typical way. Since the 10-30 outlets only have three conductors, the ground and neutral are shared, and both are present on the outlet’s L-shaped slot. Our EV adapter has been designed to route the ground connection from the 10-30 outlet while leaving the neutral alone. This way you still get a safe grounded connection. The neutral is not used by EV chargers – it’s only used for 120 volt applications such as the timer on an electric dryer. So no additional grounding is necessary as that has been taken care of in the design of the adapter. All you need to do is plug it in and set your charging current to 24 amps."

(Source: https://www.evseadapters.com/products/n ... r-adapter/)

To my understanding, this means I should be able to plug this adapter into the 10-30 outlet and then plug the OpenEVSE into the adapter (and finally set amp draw to 24A since my 1979 house only has a 30A circuit breaker).


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 Post subject: Re: Cannot charge
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:41 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:46 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Ukraine
10basetom wrote:
Thank you, @davewill, @alflash, and @miimura -- very useful information!

alflash wrote:
Before stopping HV charging, are the side indicators flashing (19 times and 10 seconds) or do they just go out?

The side indicators just turned off after both were flashing 3-5 seconds; they definitely did not flash 19 times / 10 seconds.

CORRECTION: I just plugged in the Duosida EVSE and counted the number of blinks before charging shut down -- it DID flash 19 times, so the statement above is incorrect.
...
1.As I understand it, now in your case Opion 1, not 2.
https://youtu.be/t29AjsbwXgo
This is worse.

Is the correction of your message caused by a change in the "behavior" of the indicators due to a change in the type of charger, or is it the same, but only the indicators flash differently?
If this change is only due to the use of another device,, then compare the behavior of the indicators using one (first) and using a other (second).

In Ukraine, dozens of RAV4EVs are charged with such a device
Image
from sockets without grounding and do not get any inconvenience.
Of course, I do not urge you to follow this example.


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