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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - Heater Failed - Service Bulletin TSB 0111-14
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:53 am
Posts: 55
fromport wrote:
llnsj wrote:
Here is the 1st page. I did not ask for a full 4 page but it contained what I need to know.
[img]
https://goo.gl/photos/QTiqMjKz5QNFUwpm6
[/img]

LLN


Thanks! that is really interesting info.
Everyone after Vin number 3299 has a "updated PTC heater"

Good to know, thank you for posting!


Agreed. I've been wearing Google out trying to find a trace of this document online somewhere.

The term "Production Change Effective VIN" suggests that Toyota expects this problem does not occur after this VIN?

I've read every single post on this thread twice over. From what I can tell ...
* the heater unit has a high failure rate (percentage unknown)
* a failed heater unit is known to cause damage to the DC/DC converter unit (but not always)
* a damaged DC/DC converter is known to lead to complete failure (in at least one case)
* the heater is not known to fail again after being replaced
* Toyota corporate is known to be sympathetic and offer a 30% discount on the repair (in at lease one case).

I would expect that the part number 87101-42010 would change -- i.e. 87101-42010 are known to be defective and a different part number is known to be the improved replacement. Is this not the case? How do the parts distributors know the difference? Are they marked with production dates, and are they inclined to withdraw the older production units from the shelves?

There is not very much information on the Manufacturer's website: http://www.eberspacher.com/products/ele ... aters.html


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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - Heater Failed - Service Bulletin TSB 0111-14
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:45 pm
Posts: 18
ddoxey wrote:
I've read every single post on this thread twice over. From what I can tell ...
* the heater unit has a high failure rate (percentage unknown)
* a failed heater unit is known to cause damage to the DC/DC converter unit (but not always)
* a damaged DC/DC converter is known to lead to complete failure (in at least one case)
* the heater is not known to fail again after being replaced
* Toyota corporate is known to be sympathetic and offer a 30% discount on the repair (in at least one case).

I would expect that the part number 87101-42010 would change -- i.e. 87101-42010 are known to be defective and a different part number is known to be the improved replacement. Is this not the case? How do the parts distributors know the difference? Are they marked with production dates, and are they inclined to withdraw the older production units from the shelves?



Your summary is good. I don't know why I am the only one got the car into Check EV screen of death. Probably it should be in service right after the heater malfunction but I tried to avoid the cost when dealing with no heat. I am not sure that heater is also used to warm the battery up in the winter so if it's totally failed the system shutdown.

I have tried to pull 12v battery out to reset the sensor but I might need to reset the traction battery and that circuit too. I will remember that if I ever see any issue again.

I will get my paperwork to give you the replacement part numbers on the invoice later.

LLN


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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - Heater Failed - Service Bulletin TSB 0111-14
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:55 pm
Posts: 606
llnsj wrote:

I am not sure that heater is also used to warm the battery up in the winter so if it's totally failed the system shutdown.


If I remember correctly, Tony said there is a seperate (6kW ?) heater for the batteries.
When my cabin heater failed, I could still feel a little bit of warmth (barely above ambient) coming from the vents.
I wondered if that is some heat being produced by part of the "broken" heater or that the cabin and battery heater share the same fluid and some warm fluid of the battery fluid creeps into the cabin loop.

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past ev's: 3 yr leaf 30k, 3yr rav4ev 34k, 3yr rav4ev 25k


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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - Heater Failed - Service Bulletin TSB 0111-14
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4063
Location: San Diego
fromport wrote:
llnsj wrote:

I am not sure that heater is also used to warm the battery up in the winter so if it's totally failed the system shutdown.


If I remember correctly, Tony said there is a seperate (6kW ?) heater for the batteries.
When my cabin heater failed, I could still feel a little bit of warmth (barely above ambient) coming from the vents.
I wondered if that is some heat being produced by part of the "broken" heater or that the cabin and battery heater share the same fluid and some warm fluid of the battery fluid creeps into the cabin loop.


Totally separate heating systems with completely different fluids:

1) ZeroStart heater with blue/green G48 fluid for the Tesla battery

2) Denso 6kW heater with pink Dextron for the Toyota cabin heater

viewtopic.php?p=10471#p10471

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Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - Heater Failed - Service Bulletin TSB 0111-14
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 621
OK so my heater seems to have quit tonight. I assume it is best to get it into the dealer before the converter goes with it?
Any quick test besides setting temp to HI and cc to Auto?


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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - Heater Failed - Service Bulletin TSB 0111-14
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:03 am 
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Posts: 18
smkettner wrote:
OK so my heater seems to have quit tonight. I assume it is best to get it into the dealer before the converter goes with it?
Any quick test besides setting temp to HI and cc to Auto?


Check the AUX Power monitor. If heater is working it would use more than nothing.

LLN


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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - Heater Failed - Service Bulletin TSB 0111-14
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:55 pm
Posts: 606
llnsj wrote:
smkettner wrote:
OK so my heater seems to have quit tonight. I assume it is best to get it into the dealer before the converter goes with it?
Any quick test besides setting temp to HI and cc to Auto?


Check the AUX Power monitor. If heater is working it would use more than nothing.

LLN


I doubt it actually measures the actual usage of the heater.
I assume the software just displays a certain amount of power based of the fact it should be on and thus drawing a certain amount.

Smkettner: please check with a volt meter the voltage of the 12 volt battery when rav4ev is off.
Then turn it on and check voltage again.
Should be higher than first measurement.
If not your dc-dc converter is already out and you are draining the 12 volt battery to the point where it give a "lo" warning and refuses to operate.
Compared to ice we don't have an indicator light for the alternator not charging the 12 volt battery.

_________________
OpenEvse wifi controlled L1/L2 charging
2 x GEM EV, 2019 Chevy Bolt
past ev's: 3 yr leaf 30k, 3yr rav4ev 34k, 3yr rav4ev 25k


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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - Heater Failed - Service Bulletin TSB 0111-14
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4063
Location: San Diego
To test if the heater is working requires no special tools or knowledge.

1) Use a simple 10mm socket or wrench to remove the 5 screws from the black plastic "motor cover" that says Toyota (or does it say RAV4 EV?)

2) Remove the plastic cover

3) Turn on car to READY

4) Turn on cabin heater to AUTO with a temperature setting well above ambient

5) Put your hand on the physical Denso 6kW cabin heater... it should be getting hot

6) If not, you need a new cabin heater.


Image

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Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - Heater Failed - Service Bulletin TSB 0111-14
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 621
fromport wrote:
Then turn it on and check voltage again.
Should be higher than first measurement.

12.4 to 14.6 verified last night.

will further test the 6kW Denso this weekend.

looks like easy R&R but I will leave this to the pros.
My worry would be getting the air out of the heater so it does not burn itself up before the pump fills it up.


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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - Heater Failed - Service Bulletin TSB 0111-14
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4063
Location: San Diego
smkettner wrote:
fromport wrote:
Then turn it on and check voltage again.
Should be higher than first measurement.

12.4 to 14.6 verified last night.

will further test the 6kW Denso this weekend.

looks like easy R&R but I will leave this to the pros.
My worry would be getting the air out of the heater so it does not burn itself up before the pump fills it up.


If you know that air bubbles could cause a problem, you're probably smart enough to swap the heater unit.

You already know that the DC to DC converter survived the failed heater.

_________________
Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


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