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 Post subject: Re: Longer Range Battery / Extra battery
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:15 am 
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Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 6:15 am
Posts: 343
Location: Volcano, CA
Tony I could be interested in that product, assuming my Rav4EV is still in good shape by the time it's available.
(I suppose i'd have to give up carrying a pile of charging stuff int he 3rd seat well but thats all i keep in there anyway. And if i had another 20KW of battery, i wouldnt *need* those chargers nearly as often :-) )

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 Post subject: Re: Longer Range Battery / Extra battery
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:30 pm
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Location: San Diego Co
ppartekim wrote:
I would be way more interested in getting more RAV4 batteries if there was a way to use them in a V2H solution as well. Otherwise, it would be this or a couple of Powerwalls for the house.


+1

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 Post subject: Re: Longer Range Battery / Extra battery
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:51 pm
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I would be far more interested if the car was more reliable. Or lower cost to repair what does fail.
Really be nice to have a higher density OEM battery with 60 kWh.
Then another 20 in the trunk with Jdemo and the rest of the J adapters this car would be unbelievable.
The money spent could just be a hole if other items need attention. I mean there is no warranty that goes 250k like the rest would be set up for.


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 Post subject: Re: Longer Range Battery / Extra battery
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:57 pm
Posts: 38
I am not a battery specialist, but if one 18650 cell has 3400mAh and 46g, I would need 80 cells vor 1kw/h = 3860g .
Kreisel Electric realize 4,1kg/kw/h - sounds plausible for me.
They just do it smarter than Tesla.

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 Post subject: Re: Longer Range Battery / Extra battery
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
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Location: San Diego
Promedic wrote:
I am not a battery specialist, but if one 18650 cell has 3400mAh and 46g, I would need 80 cells vor 1kw/h = 3860g .
Kreisel Electric realize 4,1kg/kw/h - sounds plausible for me.
They just do it smarter than Tesla.


https://www.math.ubc.ca/~wetton/papers/NCR18650B.pdf

Panasonic 3400mah cell:

48.6 grams
676 Wh/L
243 Wh/kg (4.115kg/kWh)

First, you'll note that the PUBLISHED weight of the cells alone is your company's calculated pack weight. In other words, total bullshit.


Tesla 90kWh battery:

87kWh = 7104 cells @ 3400mah * 3.6v nominal and weighs about 500kg (1100 pounds).

500kg / 87kWh = 5.75kg/kWh


7104 cells * 48.6g = 345.3kg (760 pounds)

All hardware, not including the cells (crash worthy box, compartmentalized cells for fire mitigation, relays, fuses, copper cables, buss bars, cooling, BMS, etc), has an estimated weight, based on estimated weight of the entire battery assembly, as follows:

500kg - 345kg = 155kg (341 pounds)

The 155kg battery box not only holds 345kg of batteries, it does so in government testing to the highest standards.

In addtition, the battery box is a structural part of the Tesla car.

Again, there is no magic in this work.

Like the company you reference (or any aftermarket battery manufacturer that is neither subject to crash testing, or structural augmentation, or fire mitigation, etc), we can build this battery for for the RAV4 EV with the cell weight plus about 23-45kg (50- 100 pounds) in hardware.

That means a 21.75kWh battery in the RAV4 EV might be:

1776 cells @ 48.6g = 86.3kg (190 pounds) + 45kg (100 pounds) = 131kg (290 pounds)
Total weight 131kg / 21.75 = 6kg per kWh

Using 23kg (50 pounds) of hardware = 5kg per kWh

**********

2024 cells (92s * 22p) * 48.6g = 98.4kg (217 pounds) might be a better combo

2024 * (3.6v * 3400mah) = 24.8kWh

For reference, the official weight of the original Nissan LEAF 24kWh pack was 300kg (660 pounds). The RAV4 battery at about mid 40kWh weighs 860 pounds.

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 Post subject: Re: Longer Range Battery / Extra battery
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:57 pm
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You are right Tony, the battery has about 6kg/kwh in real life.

The guys converted the original battery pack of a Volkswagen E-Golf (330kg 24,2 kwh) to a Kreisel battery pack (330kg 55,7kwh) the car can charge with 150kw Charger in 20min from 20 to 80 % SOC
see: http://www.kreiselelectric.com/en/proje ... tric-golf/

Here some battery pack data of the Kreisel Yeti 4x4:
"Integrated into the floor of the vehicle, the battery packs have a total capacity of 64 kWh and ensure a range in excess of 350 kilometres. The weight of the battery pack including the casing, BMS and electronics is 350 kg with a nominal voltage of 367 V (performance weight 5.5 kg/kWh and energy density 2.5 dm³/kWh)."
http://www.kreiselelectric.com/en/proje ... -yeti-4x4/

I am sure they can convert the 390kg RAV4 EV battery pack to a 60-70kwh pack.

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 Post subject: Re: Longer Range Battery / Extra battery
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
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Location: San Diego
Promedic wrote:
I am sure they can convert the 390kg RAV4 EV battery pack to a 60-70kwh pack.


Yes, anybody can! It's just swapping out the expensive cells with more expensive cells, and some software. The cooling system will be a major pain in the posterior, however.

Not too many folks are going to do that unless:

1) Their battery failed
2) They have no warranty (all cars were sold with 8 year / 100,000 mile warranty for the battery)

That's why we will likely make an external pack to augment the existing one.

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1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
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 Post subject: Re: Longer Range Battery / Extra battery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:00 pm
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How is this project proceeding? Is it still on your product roadmap?

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 Post subject: Re: Longer Range Battery / Extra battery
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:48 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
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Location: San Diego
evdrive wrote:
How is this project proceeding? Is it still on your product roadmap?


Still in the planning stage.

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QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


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 Post subject: Re: Longer Range Battery / Extra battery
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:57 pm
Posts: 38
It seems that your former gouverneur is also a "Kreisel Electric" fan.
He just bought a Mercedes Geländewagen prototype with 80kw/h battery,360kw power, max speed 114 miles/h, 5,6 sec from 0 to 100km/h (62mph) range minimum 200 miles from Kreisel Electric.

https://www.facebook.com/TheArnoldFans/photos/a.154016694651109.46483.153291844723594/1376157982436968/?type=3

Newslink (sorry only in german):
http://forbes.at/e-mobility-sensation-kreisel-electric-faehrt-mit-arnold-schwarzenegger-in-die-zukunft/

Image

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RAV4 EV 2012 Blizzard Pearl
(first RAV4 EV in the European Union)
RAV4 EV 2000, 1st Generation
Peugeot ion 2013
Fiat 500e 2014
KEBA 32A wallbox
12.5kw Solar Panel PV


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