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 Post subject: Valence U1-12RT - 12 volt Lithium battery
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 2:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:26 am
Posts: 305
Location: Austin, TX
If the 12V battery is disconnected for ~5-7 hours, does that mean I have to reprogram my radio stations (which I would dread), or does the system have enough memory/capacitance to keep it stored during this test?


BTW, I swapped out my 12V lead acid battery for a lithium ion Valence U1-12RT battery yesterday. So now I am 100% lead free!
I will post dimension & weight differences, current flows (vehicle off, standby, and on), underhood battery temperatures after driving, as well as pictures and installation hardware suggestions.

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Kohler Controller
Shoreline Blue
EVSE, AeroVironment 30A, 7.4kW
Reciever Hitch, CURT Class III Round Tube
Cargo Liner
Modified 120VAC EVSE to also accept 240VAC
Hood struts- Sokie Tech
JdeMO Level 3 Charging port
12.6kW PV system
VIN 1396
Austin, Texas


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 Post subject: Re: Valence U1-12RT - 12 volt Lithium battery
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 8:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4113
Location: San Diego
Kohler Controller wrote:
If the 12V battery is disconnected for ~5-7 hours, does that mean I have to reprogram my radio stations (which I would dread), or does the system have enough memory/capacitance to keep it stored during this test?


1) Stored radio / SiriusXM stations will remain, however your last station listened to will likely be gone

2) Cell phone pairings are not 100%, so I would check. i have had to delete my phone (and the car from my phone) and re-pair it

3) Map display mode

4) Volume of navigation voice notifications

5) Random play modes

6) Charge schedule will be retained, but it won't work without hitting the "SAVE" button on the previous screen

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Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
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 Post subject: Re: Valence U1-12RT - 12 volt Lithium battery
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 1:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:44 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Farmington UT
Where did you pick one up at?


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 Post subject: Re: Valence U1-12RT - 12 volt Lithium battery
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 1:48 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4113
Location: San Diego
csugar21 wrote:
Where did you pick one up at?


I got one from a guy that wholesales used ones.

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Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


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 Post subject: Re: Valence U1-12RT - 12 volt Lithium battery
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:44 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Farmington UT
How are you liking them? Are they pretty much plug and play?


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 Post subject: Re: Valence U1-12RT - 12 volt Lithium battery
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:56 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:26 am
Posts: 305
Location: Austin, TX
csugar21 wrote:
How are you liking them? Are they pretty much plug and play?


I would not call it plug and play. First, the Valence U1-12RT is much smaller in all dimensions and weight. That being said, I had to add a riser so that it would be tall enough to be able to be clamped by the original battery tie down hardware. Also, the battery comes with flat terminals and bolts, instead of conical posts often found on lead acids. Luckily I found some aftermarket adapters that fit perfectly so that I didn't have to modify the wiring harnesses of the original 12V cabling system.

Using a laptop connected to the U1-12RT, I was able to observe the overall voltage, individual cell voltages, cell temperature, and any error conditions. So I ran some tests.

Just sitting there, there seemed to be very little activity (13.5V & 0.05A). I'm not sure about the current resolution so 0.05A may be the same as 0A.
When you open the door, 3.8A is drawn from the battery. The current slowly decays to 1.2A. After 3 minutes, current flow stops.
When you hit the Start Button but not on the brake, you go into Stand-by Mode. This draws 5A (at 13.3V).
When you hit the Start Button with the brake, turning on the car, current is pulled from the battery briefly while the DC-DC turns on. Then the battery gets charged with >60A due to the low internal resistance of the li-ion (for comparison the lead acid only accepts 11A under the same conditions before the 14.2V is reached). The charging current then slowly decays until the battery voltage reaches 14.28V. I did notice that sometimes the inrush current was so high that the U1-12RT disconnected itself to protect it's electronics, then came on again and was able to stay on long enough to see the charging current drop for it not to cut out again.

******************WARNING FOR ALL THAT USE A BATTERY WITH SELF PROTECTING ELECTRONICS!**************

IF THE VEHICLE IS SHUT OFF WHILE THE BATTERY HAS INTERNALLY DISCONNECTED ITSELF, THE VEHICLE WILL LOSE ALL 12V POWER AND WILL BRICK. IN THIS CASE, ONE OF THE 12V CABLES MUST BE REMOVED FROM THE 12V BATTERY TO RESET THE ELECTRONICS, THEN IT CAN BE RECONNECTED AND ALL 12V POWER IS RESTORED TO THE CAR, ENABLING IT TO BE STARTED.

****************************************************************************************************
Luckily this happened to me while I was in my garage so I was able to get a 10mm wrench and reset the battery state.

Some more data points:
The car pulls 9-10A (at 13.5V) when the lights are on for 30 seconds after the car is turned off.
When the vacuum pump comes on, it pulls 18A from the battery.
I then plugged my car into my EVSE, but it was on delayed charge setting. It began pulling 11A from the battery for 1 minute, then dropped to 6.5A for 9 minutes (perhaps this is when it calls the mothership?). For the entire time, a noise was observed (probably coolant pump). When the noise stopped, the current dropped to 1.45A and then eventually 0A.

I then told my car to start charging using RavCharge (great app!) and saw the battery supply 5A, then 17A, then 6A during the handshaking with the EVSE. Once it began charging, the 12V system started to charge with 12A until it reached 13.5V, then current decayed to whatever was necessary to maintain 13.5V.
After 18 minutes, the 12V charging voltage increased to 14.2V, allowing the current to increase to >60A again which decayed down very quickly to maintain 14.2V. Noise could be heard from the cooling pump. Then the 12V system would revert back to 13.5V charging at 8A and then decaying to hold 13.5V. When current dropped to 0.15A, the DC-DC no longer charged the battery. I assume that while charging the main pack, the DC-DC will periodically keep the 12V battery topped off to maintain 13.5V, and then cut off. However, if any pack coolant needs to be moved around, the DC-DC seems to boost it up to 14.2V and give it whatever current it requires to keep the system going.

I disconnected the charging cable and observed 1.5A being discharged from the 12V battery for 3 minutes.

So I've saved 20 lbs in weight and probably have a much more reliable 12V power system in the long run (especially when not being used for a few weeks), as long as I remember not to turn off the car within 10 seconds of turning it on, in the slight chance I happen to catch the system in that one condition where it has temporarily taken itself out of the circuit. I just wanted everyone else to be aware.

_________________
Kohler Controller
Shoreline Blue
EVSE, AeroVironment 30A, 7.4kW
Reciever Hitch, CURT Class III Round Tube
Cargo Liner
Modified 120VAC EVSE to also accept 240VAC
Hood struts- Sokie Tech
JdeMO Level 3 Charging port
12.6kW PV system
VIN 1396
Austin, Texas


Last edited by Kohler Controller on Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Valence U1-12RT - 12 volt Lithium battery
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:21 pm
Posts: 139
For all the hassle of this battery, why not just use a AGM battery like an Orbital or a Optima? Then there is no worries or issues?

I have 2 Exide Orbital's in one of my vehicle's... date code..... 02.. yeah :D

They are that good.

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I fly drones and R/C..
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 Post subject: Re: Valence U1-12RT - 12 volt Lithium battery
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:06 pm
Posts: 12
Location: MA
The RAV4EV is going to be baked by the paint shop at 140F. Currently has Optima yellow top. In preparation, I got a Valence U1-12RT (Ebay used, $160) for whenever the Optima needs replacing.
Hopefully it will ship with manual https://mrbill.homeip.net/downloads/use ... enceRT.pdf
There I noticed the U24 & U27 models. U1 is much more affordable; is that why it was chosen over the others?
How can the battery be modified to avoid shut down? Manual doesn't say. What are the pros/cons?

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 Post subject: Re: Valence U1-12RT - 12 volt Lithium battery
PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:55 pm
Posts: 198
Location: Duvall, Wash.
From what I'm reading, the Valence products aren't sealed -- are susceptible to water damage. I can't find an IP rating, though.

From the manual you linked above, pg. 20:
Valence wrote:
Do not expose the battery to direct sunlight or moisture and/or precipitation


r111 wrote:
Bottom copper plate has signs of corrosion. The affected 30p pack is welded to the bottom plate. I think some salt water (ouch !!!), may be 20ml or so, got in during one of my kayak outings, ended up on the bottom of battery . . . [1]


That's a non-starter for me here in the Seattle area, as everything in my locale gets drenched eventually.

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Al Savage
2014 Rav4 EV, Shoreline Blue Pearl, #2609, first use 04Jun2014, 49k miles (Aug2017), OpenEVSE 40A. First DU replacement May2018 59k.
2018 Model 3 LR AWD, blue. 9.6kw solar
1999 E300 on B100 (sold Sep2018)
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