ALL POSTS - Heater Failed - Service Bulletin TSB 0111-14

mikegerard said:

doug401 said:

Another heater failure in Washington State. Not my Rav but co-workers. I suggested that he should just purchase a 2011/2012 Nissan Leaf heater core and replace it himself. No warranty help from Toyota for out-of-state. I seem to remember Tony Williams mentioning that both Leaf and Rav use the same part. I found a Nissan OEM core for $322 online... Anyway, if mine ever fails, that's my plan.

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Doug -
Can you post the link for the one you found?

It seems like the failure rate on these is pretty high, so it will be something that the out of state people should know about. I could not get through the winter without heat...

Thanks
Mike

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Edit.. this may not be the correct part. It's the core, but I don't know if the element is a sub-assembly of the core, or is the element a standalone part.
Here you go... shows an illustrated parts breakdown too. See item #14.
http://www.oemautopartz.com/nissan/parts-catalog/nissan/leaf/2011/sl/electric/hvac/heater

Edit #2
Ok.. how about this Toyota parts breakdown. #87710G "Quick Heater Assembly" ?
http://www.oemtoyotapartsgroup.com/showAssembly.aspx?makeName=toyota&modelYear=0&modelName=rav-4-evelectric-motorwagon&ukey_assembly=5738451&ukey_product=43382416&assembly=87c950-8714-664420
I'm going to stop by Nissan today after work and see if it is in stock and see if it is the same part number as Tony's picture below shows.

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=414&p=4663&hilit=+heater#p4663

Bad news. I stopped by Nissan and asked about the Denso heater. They called it the PTZ and said you can't order just it alone, you must order the entire "Blower Assy-Air" #27210-4DB0A. Price…. $1167…. it gets worse. They are back ordered 50 units across the U.S. due to so many failures. So much for my great idea. The parts guy said Denso should be able to get the PTZ directly. I also was thinking about a possible salvaged blower assembly from a wrecked Leaf. The part number from Tony's photo looks to be 013790-0042.

The heater for the BATTERY (different from the cabin heater) consumes 0.5kW-HOUR to precondition the battery. That is different that 0.5kW rate, unless it operates at that rate for exactly an hour.

The cabin heater that failed on my car also took out the DC-DC convertor. So, just replacing the heater might not fix it.

TonyWilliams said:

The heater for the BATTERY (different from the cabin heater) consumes 0.5kW-HOUR to precondition the battery. That is different that 0.5kW rate, unless it operates at that rate for exactly an hour.

The cabin heater that failed on my car also took out the DC-DC convertor. So, just replacing the heater might not fix it.

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Ok.. got it
This is it… and it's $2083
http://www.oemtoyotapartsgroup.com/showAssembly.aspx?makeName=toyota&modelYear=2012&modelName=rav-4-evelectric-motorwagon&ukey_assembly=5739330&ukey_category=52012&assembly=87c971c-8716-664420

I just removed the big black cover under the hood. Guess what? the only thing under there is the heater assembly. 4-10 millimeter mount bolts, 1-10 millimeter GND stud, 2 quick disconnect plugs, and the 2 hose connections. IT WOULD BE A TEN MINUTE JOB UNDER WARRANTY. Sadly… I'll be breaking the news my co-worker. The cost is so prohibitive, trucking back to CA is the his only option. How does the jingle go? OH WHAT A FEELING… TOYOTA...

Here's the battery heater:

http://phillipsandtemro.com//hybrid-ev/evbattmgmt.asp

Power source: AC and/or DC
Output: 1.8 – 6.0 KW (application dependent)
Voltage: 120V-500V (application dependent)





The cabin heater:





Under the hood:





The DC power source for the cabin heater and the battery coolant heater, on the DC to DC convertor:

mark_rivers19 said:

boredcleaner said:

I took mine in for 15K service Friday and added a check for the heater. The heater didn't work. The service department gave me a RAV4 EV loaner and the heater works fine. I'm hoping to hear from them today to get an ETA on a fix.

FWIW, the Toyota Rental agency did not want to rent out the RAV4 EV. I was discouraged from taking it (and they had no other vehicle to offer as a loaner!). It had 17 miles on the GOM and it was filthy. Can it be that difficult to put the RAV on the 120V supplied EVSE (if they aren't willing to use any of their 230V EVSE)? I've rented several other vehicles from there and they are always washed before delivery, but not this one...

Maybe if they are really not interested in renting it, they'll offer it up at a steep discount?

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wait a minute, isn't the rental car FREE? since you're having work done.
OR maybe i'm confusing my Lexus with my Toyota service department.

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From my experience w/Nissan and Toyota, them giving a free service loaner/rental is the exception rather than the norm, at least for warranty work and minor (cheap) maintenance. Most times, they won't. Heck, some dealers of those brands only have a 1-way service shuttle. They'll drop you off but not pick you up.

I have gotten a service loaner once for my Prius after they needed to keep my car overnight to repro. I dropped it off, they took me to work in their shuttle. They couldn't repro, picked me back up for a Camry Hybrid loaner so they could keep my Prius overnight to repro a problem. Fortunately, it did. I think that's the ONLY time I've ever gotten a loaner from a Toyota dealer in the almost 8 years I've had my Prius.

My dad recently got some sort of service loaner for his out of warranty 02 Rav4 for a check engine light. He needed a new ECM that was a over $1K repair and the subject of a class action lawsuit settlement. Didn't help him as he was past the 10 year/150K mile ECM warranty provided by the settlement (http://www.rav4ecmsettlement.com/content.aspx?c=4724&sh=1) due to the car's age, not its mileage.

Never owned a Lexus before but I won a week test drive of a Lexus HS ages ago (was a promo). I went to Lexus of Bellevue (WA) to pick up the car and it already had a service loaner sticker across the back window. It was brand new w/I think less than 30 miles on the clock, maybe less than 20. IIRC, I put maybe 500 miles during that week.

doug401 said:

TonyWilliams said:

The heater for the BATTERY (different from the cabin heater) consumes 0.5kW-HOUR to precondition the battery. That is different that 0.5kW rate, unless it operates at that rate for exactly an hour.

The cabin heater that failed on my car also took out the DC-DC convertor. So, just replacing the heater might not fix it.

Click to expand...

Ok.. got it
This is it… and it's $2083
http://www.oemtoyotapartsgroup.com/showAssembly.aspx?makeName=toyota&modelYear=2012&modelName=rav-4-evelectric-motorwagon&ukey_assembly=5739330&ukey_category=52012&assembly=87c971c-8716-664420

I just removed the big black cover under the hood. Guess what? the only thing under there is the heater assembly. 4-10 millimeter mount bolts, 1-10 millimeter GND stud, 2 quick disconnect plugs, and the 2 hose connections. IT WOULD BE A TEN MINUTE JOB UNDER WARRANTY. Sadly… I'll be breaking the news my co-worker. The cost is so prohibitive, trucking back to CA is the his only option. How does the jingle go? OH WHAT A FEELING… TOYOTA...

Click to expand...

That's really bad news... If it really is a quick swap out it seems crazy to have to ship the car 700 miles for a 15 minute repair.
Mike

Well, for nearly nine months, my RAV4 EV ownership/reliability has been excellent. I got the RAV back last night, drove it home with the heater functioning, parked it, plugged it in, and let RavCharge handle the rest.

At 5 a.m., I went out to go to work, but noticed that the EVSE was not on (should have been in preclimate on mode). Maybe I missed it. Unplugged the car, looked at all the ice on it, and got worried. Then I hopped in, tried to start it and got the Check EV System error. It would not start after several tries. The Volt would get a rare trip to the office today.

At lunch, I took off to meet the tow truck to get the RAV back to the dealer. I am hoping this is something simple like a HVIL connector came loose on the drive home. I did not get a time estimate for the repair and I don't believe anyone looked at it this afternoon. Fortunately, the dealer has offered me a loaner car until mine is back.

I'll post more info as it becomes available.

I thought I too had a heater issue, but after a trip to my Master Tech yesterday, he assures me, it's working. The steps I took to heating the car this morning:
Click AC off.
Click "recirculate" for the air flow. Crank to high, both cabin and feet.
It still works slowly... thank God for the butt warmers.... but after a solid 5 minutes, my feet were moderately warm.
It heats the cabin/vents area faster than floor/feet. However, it works very slowly and makes me wanna get one of those pocket-hand-warmers for my shoes!! I'm not certain how anyone in a cold area is handling this strange issue... I'm in Southern CA and not in the car long drives at all, just an hour at a time, mostly... but in snow or cold rain, I feel for you guys (and gals). I wonder if this was one of the reasons they preferred the cars stay in-state? Just thinking aloud. And thinking about getting a lap blanket that plugs into the car charger... or heated socks!! Such a wuss with cold......
:lol:

It's too bad the Rav4 EV has a slow resistive heater. If Tony's right, it heats some water/coolant that gets circulated to a heater core (like that of the '11 and '12 Leaf).

FWIW, I have a '13 Leaf SV w/the more efficient hybrid heater w/heat pump. I don't pre-heat my car and today, I turned on the heater (after being parked overnight in my garage) before backing out of the garage. I didn't check for heat immediately, but definitely in less than a minute, I had a decent amount of heat.

I don't think I've ever had any ICEVs that could provide me heat that quickly after being parked overnight.

cwerdna said:

It's too bad the Rav4 EV has a slow resistive heater. If Tony's right, it heats some water/coolant that gets circulated to a heater core (like that of the '11 and '12 Leaf).

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The pink coolant under the hood is the cabin heater fluid.

The darker G48 coolant is for the Tesla bits; DC to DC converter, AC motor, inverter, charger, and battery heating / cooling.

The clear fluid is brake fluid.

That Zerostart battery heater looks an awful lot like a cheap(probably not from Toyota though)off the shelf heater.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/181238692973?lpid=82

qwk said:

That Zerostart battery heater looks an awful lot like a cheap(probably not from Toyota though)off the shelf heater.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/181238692973?lpid=82

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Too bad Toyota did not go with one of these for it's cabin heater. The cabin heater is more than an order of magnitude more expensive.

Heater died a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't bring it in until the temps dropped this week. Heather core is dead according to dealer. They sent me home with EV and a still broken heater. I am waiting for a call from dealer whenever they here from Toyota. Supposedly tomorrow. We'll go from there.

Thank goodness for heated seats, but the kids in the back seat or suffering on the way to school.

shade said:

Heater died a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't bring it in until the temps dropped this week. Heather core is dead according to dealer. They sent me home with EV and a still broken heater. I am waiting for a call from dealer whenever they here from Toyota. Supposedly tomorrow. We'll go from there.

Thank goodness for heated seats, but the kids in the back seat or suffering on the way to school.

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I took mine in yesterday and was diagnosed with broken heater and DC2DC unit. The parts are ordered and supposedly arrive today. I will report on what was fixed when I get my Rav back.

waidy said:

I took mine in yesterday and was diagnosed with broken heater and DC2DC unit. The parts are ordered and supposedly arrive today. I will report on what was fixed when I get my Rav back.

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I am taking mine back on Wednesday for the same repair. Dealer asked to keep it overnight. :?

Let us know how your repair goes and if it works.

shade said:

waidy said:

I took mine in yesterday and was diagnosed with broken heater and DC2DC unit. The parts are ordered and supposedly arrive today. I will report on what was fixed when I get my Rav back.

Click to expand...

I am taking mine back on Wednesday for the same repair. Dealer asked to keep it overnight. :?

Let us know how your repair goes and if it works.

Click to expand...

When I checked on the status few hours ago, they told me that one of the part (heater) will not be in until January 6. The DC2DC unit is here. They don't want to change just the DC because it may be damaged by the broken heater. They asked that I leave my Rav there until January 6 (yuck!).

I demand for a loaner EV. They are now checking with their rental car company to locate one for me. I told them there is drivenow.com. I checked and there were 3 ActiveE available for rent.

I called Toyota to file an complaint. Toyota is checking on two things for me: (1) why is the heater take so long to arrive to the dealer (2) get me a loaner EV. Toyota said they will get back to me within 24 hours.

I will report back to the forum when Toyota calls me back tomorrow.

waidy said:

shade said:

waidy said:

I took mine in yesterday and was diagnosed with broken heater and DC2DC unit. The parts are ordered and supposedly arrive today. I will report on what was fixed when I get my Rav back.

Click to expand...

I am taking mine back on Wednesday for the same repair. Dealer asked to keep it overnight. :?

Let us know how your repair goes and if it works.

Click to expand...

When I checked on the status few hours ago, they told me that one of the part (heater) will not be in until January 6. The DC2DC unit is here. They don't want to change just the DC because it may be damaged by the broken heater. They asked that I leave my Rav there until January 6 (yuck!).

I demand for a loaner EV. They are now checking with their rental car company to locate one for me. I told them there is drivenow.com. I checked and there were 3 ActiveE available for rent.

I called Toyota to file an complaint. Toyota is checking on two things for me: (1) why is the heater take so long to arrive to the dealer (2) get me a loaner EV. Toyota said they will get back to me within 24 hours.

I will report back to the forum when Toyota calls me back tomorrow.

Click to expand...

I now have a 2014 SparkEV with SAE Combo socket as a loaner (no cost to me) until my Rav is fixed. L2 charge rate is only 3.3kW (16 amp) :-(

Mine is dead, too. Took it to City Toyota in Daly City yesterday. At least they provided me with a free ICE loaner.

Obviously, Toyota blew it with the heater. In reading the boards, this is too many failures. Too many to be a coincidence, anyway.

Woody

Dealer tells me that they are still waiting to hear back from Toyota for a loaner so that they can go to work on the broken heater in the EV. Now hoping that I can get it in the shop by Friday.