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 Post subject: Re: Additional Battery Project - Possible Extra 40 kwh
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:04 am 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 4:49 am
Posts: 574
Location: Ithaca, NY
I left the 12v battery disconnected for about over an hour. Just reconnected it, car rebooted, car started, car is now charging.

However, something strange is going on. Again when I started my car the radio wouldn't work. The radio said that I was making a phone call. I was not, I took a photo of the screen and I heard the camera noise through my cars speakers. I closed all of the apps on my phone, tapped the end call button on my steering wheel, hit the radio button and for some reason it went back to normal and started playing pandora. My shunt did not have power (it transmits data to the display) but my meter display did have power. Later Ill go outside and try to recreate everything except Ill leave the meter display without power. I did disconnect power to the display while the call issue was happening. Even though the display was powered down the car still thought I was on a call.

Not sure whats going on yet but the car IS charging and operating normally, other than all the phone calls it thinks I am making....

Here is the meter that I have in the car. https://www.ebay.com/itm/400V-300A-DC-Digital-Voltage-Meter-Ammeter-Voltmeter-Capacity-Coulomb-Counter/352245023429?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Image

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2014 Rav EV #3364
2012 Plug in Prius

OpenEVSE builds
priuschat.com/threads/my-openevse-build.115573/#post-1647089
Dual voltage, portable 40amp Openevse
myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1013&start=120


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 Post subject: Re: Additional Battery Project - Possible Extra 40 kwh
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:50 am 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 4:49 am
Posts: 574
Location: Ithaca, NY
Ok, just went out again. Car was charging and operating fine.

Before I opened a door I shut down my iPhone 6. Totally off. Got in the car and pressed power with the car charging AND the display still powered. Shunt/transmitter off. NO phone calls were being made. Good

I went to the back and engaged the contactors. Car immediately stops charging and will not restart. I had the check ev system message but it again went away after THREE power cycles.

I unplugged the 12v 5 amp fuse for the contactors but the car still wouldn’t charge. So I disconnected the 12v battery again and it is sitting like that now.

While the 12v battery is disconnected I am now going to disconnect the shunt and see what happens when I do all of this all over again. We’re of course getting more snow as I do all of this. Winter needs to end!

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2014 Rav EV #3364
2012 Plug in Prius

OpenEVSE builds
priuschat.com/threads/my-openevse-build.115573/#post-1647089
Dual voltage, portable 40amp Openevse
myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1013&start=120


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 Post subject: Re: Additional Battery Project - Possible Extra 40 kwh
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:20 am 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 4:49 am
Posts: 574
Location: Ithaca, NY
Update: Working through the snowstorm...
I reconnected the 12v battery, display connected, phone on, shunt disconnected from the ground HV battery wire and not powered up by 12 volts.

Car starts and charges like normal. NO PHONE CALL being made!

I go into the back and send 12 volts to the contactors. Car does NOT stop charging! Continues working like normal!

At this point I have to say that the Chinese meter/shunt is doing something weird. The display is fine, its something in the shunt/meter. It messes with the car so it thinks there is a phone call happening, not the end of the world because if I push enough buttons it goes away. But being connected while attempting to charge does something to the car and sends it into error mode. An error that will only go away by disconnecting the battery then cycling power THREE times. Why it is 3 and not 5 like normal, I dont know.

As long as I am NOT charging the car operates fine with the shunt connected, aside from the phone call happening when I power up the car. I drove the car around today with the shunt/meter connected and it transmitted the HV battery voltage to the display without any problems. The issues only came up as I tried to charge it.

Conclusion, I am still a go on this project. The new battery BMS will come with its own shunt so I will remove this Chinese shunt. HOPEFULLY the Orion or Batrium shunt doesnt have the same issue. If it does, I guess I wont be metering current... The fact that the car operates fine and charges without the shunt connected gives me hope. Val told me that the onboard charger charged both batteries when he did his set up. It should work for me too.

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2014 Rav EV #3364
2012 Plug in Prius

OpenEVSE builds
priuschat.com/threads/my-openevse-build.115573/#post-1647089
Dual voltage, portable 40amp Openevse
myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1013&start=120


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 Post subject: Re: Additional Battery Project - Possible Extra 40 kwh
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:23 pm
Posts: 21
Try disconnecting the voltage lead and 12v on your shunt... sounds like that isolation issue I was referring to... IIRC it only surfaces during charging.


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 Post subject: Re: Additional Battery Project - Possible Extra 40 kwh
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:23 pm
Posts: 21
Yep, saw your update post too late... should work fine if you install the 12v - 12v dc isolation converter I mentioned earlier, most will likely need this.


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 Post subject: Re: Additional Battery Project - Possible Extra 40 kwh
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:57 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Salisbury, NC
Every EV drive I've worked with has some sort of ground current leakage detection circuit that monitors if there is any potential for current to flow between the HV battery pack and chassis ground. On our Ravs it's expressed as 'isolation resistance', and should typically be >2 Mohms. The intent is that if you were to accidentally come in contact with one of the HV leads and chassis ground at the same time, the current wouldn't be enough to kill you. The threshold for setting a fault is usually in the range of a milliamp or so.

In this case, using a shunt wired to a HV lead in a meter that is also tied to the vehicle ground resulted in some leakage current, that in turn caused a drop in the calculated isolation resistance and thus an EV system warning.

As suggsted, an isolated DC-DC converter will normally fix this problem. Note that all converters are not the same, and many have a common ground between input and output. To solve this problem, only an *isolated* converter will do.

Alternatively, my preferred solution is a LEM current sensor: non-contact and complete isolation from the circuit it is measuring. These are available in a wide variety of sensing ranges and cable pass-throughs. There is a dual range LEM used in the Chevy Volt battery packs.


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 Post subject: Re: Additional Battery Project - Possible Extra 40 kwh
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 4:49 am
Posts: 574
Location: Ithaca, NY
Test

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2014 Rav EV #3364
2012 Plug in Prius

OpenEVSE builds
priuschat.com/threads/my-openevse-build.115573/#post-1647089
Dual voltage, portable 40amp Openevse
myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1013&start=120


Last edited by jimbo69ny on Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Additional Battery Project - Possible Extra 40 kwh
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 4:49 am
Posts: 574
Location: Ithaca, NY
ph2 wrote:
Yep, saw your update post too late... should work fine if you install the 12v - 12v dc isolation converter I mentioned earlier, most will likely need this.



Thank you. I’m not sure I’m going to keep this display so I’ll hold off on buying the part for now.

I just got the quote for the box from the welder..... 1/4” aluminum isn’t cheap..... $1000!! And that doesn’t include cutting the floor and putting in a new floor pan, that’s just the box. I’ve decided to go with high strength S2 fiberglass.

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2014 Rav EV #3364
2012 Plug in Prius

OpenEVSE builds
priuschat.com/threads/my-openevse-build.115573/#post-1647089
Dual voltage, portable 40amp Openevse
myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1013&start=120


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 Post subject: Re: Additional Battery Project - Possible Extra 40 kwh
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 4:49 am
Posts: 574
Location: Ithaca, NY
Update:
Since receiving a quote for an aluminum box that was way higher than I expected, I have totally redesigned my box and modules. The new design will be actually be easier and cheaper but I will lose more space in my car. I have decided to go with fiberglass for the shell of the box and GPO-3 to make up the 3 levels inside of the box. The fiberglass is a super strong S-2 Glass type. In many of its specs it is actually better than carbon fiber, Kevlar, and steel.
This is the glass I purchased. https://www.tapplastics.com/product/fiberglass/fiberglass_fabrics/s_2_glass_4522/88
The resin is a high strength polyester. Here is a link to that. https://www.tapplastics.com/product/fiberglass/polyester_resins/tap_isophthalic_high_strength_resin/9
The GPO-3 is a fire resistant, non conductive material that is also super strong. Here is a link to that. https://www.electro-wind.com/rochling-glastic-gpo3-utr-1494-red-1-4x48x96.html
All of the items will make the box stronger than steel but a quarter of the weight. All said and done I will save about $800 on the box/body work and my car will remain original (no cuts or modifications)

This shows the height and frame of the new box. Just getting started to prep for fiberglass
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This was a bit disappointing... The lip of the box touched the back door so when the back door closed it pushed the frame inward. That changed the alignment of the box which made it not work. So I am going to have to cut the lower part of my rear door panel off and fiberglass a new piece on. The plastic panel is common enough that I can get a replacement later if I need to.
Image

I have all of this space for the BMS and/or more batteries later down the road.
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This is what the new modules are going to look like. I am going to have 4 of these modules on each level. I only have 3 pictured because I am out of the cell holders currently.
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This shows what the new height will be. My car compared to my wifes car.
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_________________
2014 Rav EV #3364
2012 Plug in Prius

OpenEVSE builds
priuschat.com/threads/my-openevse-build.115573/#post-1647089
Dual voltage, portable 40amp Openevse
myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1013&start=120


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 Post subject: Re: Additional Battery Project - Possible Extra 40 kwh
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:25 am 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 4:49 am
Posts: 574
Location: Ithaca, NY
I thought I should post an update. I havent in a bit.

I currently have 3 projects that I have been working on. I had to finally focus on one because they are each pretty expensive endeavors. Here are my 3 projects.
1. As this thread shows, I want to add an additional battery pack to my Rav. Unless more suitable batteries fall into my lap, I am going to use 18650 cells and put them together into modules. I found two suppliers. I can get recycled cells that are 2000-2800 mah for a $1 each, or $3,680. OR 3500 mah LG MJ1 cells for $3.80 each. Its a great deal but it would take 2-3 months for them to be shipped overseas. The total would be about $14,000! Its a lot of capacity but thats a lot of money.

2. I want to build a range extending battery trailer. As you might have seen on facebook, I found a working Rav pack. With the help of Matt, another member here, we are going to build a controller for it. He is fluent in CAN BUS which I am not. He has made a lot of progress already. We should have a controller soon. Everything else is ready. I have all of the connections, wire and trailer. For that reason I decided to complete project 2 first. I am basically there.

2 1/2. Currently the range extending trailer R.E.T. will be made using the Rav pack. However I am keeping my eyes open for a Tesla 85 or 100 kw pack. I hope to do the same thing but with a Tesla pack. Potentially tripling my range!

2 3/4. Once I get a Tesla R.E.T. I have a long term goal of building a teardrop trailer that I can bolt on and off as needed. My wife and I love road trips and I really like the idea of pulling a small camper for a long road trip. I plan on building everything as lightweight as possible. Aluminum frame trailer, fiberglass teardrop shell, aluminum teardrop frame and as few as amenities as the wife will tolerate.

3. I figure if someone at some point wants to buy my Rav4 EV modules, I will keep the battery shell and stuff it full of 100kw Tesla modules. I took apart the pack and measured everything. I can fit 15 Tesla 100kw modules. That would be 90s instead of our 92s but it might be ok. Again, because I dont speak CAN I would have to rely on help from others. I am trying to learn but it just isnt my thing. Not to mention that it requires some pretty expensive equipment to dive in and test with. Regardless, if I can get help, I can make 15 modules fit. I just dont know what the Tesla and Toyota components would do when it saw power coming from a different pack. No idea. Also worth noting, it would require a 3 inch spacer in order to make room for a third level of modules. Currently the pack has 2 levels. It would mean that the pack would sit lower, closer to the ground. I dont think that in and of itself is an issue but I would probably want to make a couple fiberglass aero panels to fix aerodynamics under the car.

So thats where I am at now. Trailer is almost done and I am keeping an eye out for a Tesla pack. I just finished the fiberglass onboard battery box so that is still progressing too. I have to go put my kid to bed but Ill try to get some photos up tonight. In the meantime, you can check out my youtube page. Warning though, it sucks and I'm sure I sound like an idiot. haha https://www.youtube.com/user/jimbo69ny

_________________
2014 Rav EV #3364
2012 Plug in Prius

OpenEVSE builds
priuschat.com/threads/my-openevse-build.115573/#post-1647089
Dual voltage, portable 40amp Openevse
myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1013&start=120


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