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 Post subject: Is the "Tony test" the only way to measure battery?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:29 pm 
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Can someone verify that there is no way for a Toyota dealer to test the capacity/degradation of the traction battery. I have been told this by two Toyota EV service departments/techs. Sounds crazy. Thanks, Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Is the "Tony test" the only way to measure battery?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:05 am 
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Location: Los Altos, CA
atzmark wrote:
Can someone verify that there is no way for a Toyota dealer to test the capacity/degradation of the traction battery. I have been told this by two Toyota EV service departments/techs. Sounds crazy. Thanks, Mark

I believe that if you were somehow able to decode the information on the Tesla CANbus, you would be able to see the BMS's estimate of kWh or Ah capacity. However, this may not be generally available to Toyota techs. Maybe if they had the Tesla software, they could dig for that info. However, the people you would normally talk to at the dealership would not know this or want to give you that information in the first place.

If you are really motivated you could probably dig around on the internet and find something useful that is normally used on Tesla vehicles. You would have to make a cable that connects to the diagnostic port at the rear of the car. There may be a dongle solution that connects to the correct pins on that connector and makes the data available on Bluetooth or WiFi.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the "Tony test" the only way to measure battery?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:07 am 
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Support from Toyota is fairly limited on the drivetrain and battery made by Tesla. Tesla seems to reluctantly give Toyota access to an engineer as needed for items needing repair only. Tony test is just a fairly standardized empirical test developed by Tony during his extensive testing and engineering centered around the RAV4-EV. I suspect even the limited support from Tesla could soon be even harder to get just as the owners of the Roadster 1 are starting to discover.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the "Tony test" the only way to measure battery?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:31 am 
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Wow...so if I do the "Tony test" and my battery only has 35% of original capacity, the dealer will replace the battery (under California state warranty) on my say so, lol.

Come on now, are you really saying the dealer has no way to test the capacity of the traction battery to see if it should be replaced under warranty? Tony has said only six batteries have been replaced....How did Toyota determine a replacement was needed?

I've have a Leaf tested ($85) at the dealer, Tesla dealers can tell you, & I would bet every other EV's battery capacity (including plug-in Prius) can be tested by their dealer.

Like I said, this is both illogical and crazy. Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Is the "Tony test" the only way to measure battery?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
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Location: Los Altos, CA
atzmark wrote:
Wow...so if I do the "Tony test" and my battery only has 35% of original capacity, the dealer will replace the battery (under California state warranty) on my say so, lol.

Come on now, are you really saying the dealer has no way to test the capacity of the traction battery to see if it should be replaced under warranty? Tony has said only six batteries have been replaced....How did Toyota determine a replacement was needed?

I've have a Leaf tested ($85) at the dealer, Tesla dealers can tell you, & I would bet every other EV's battery capacity (including plug-in Prius) can be tested by their dealer.

Like I said, this is both illogical and crazy. Mark

There is no capacity warranty, so no need for such a procedure. That is only sort of tongue in cheek. Seriously though, if the capacity degraded to 35% of the original capacity, it would probably go out of balance and that would be a fault that would qualify for warranty replacement if the car was still within the 8/100 traction battery warranty.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the "Tony test" the only way to measure battery?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:19 am 
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Location: Los Altos, CA
The other thing you may not know is that when the battery is significantly degraded, it doesn't illuminate all 16 bars, even in Extended mode. We have started to see that in the vehicle population. So, 35% would be scaled to 16ths of 35kWh and reflected on the 16 bars on the instrument panel.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the "Tony test" the only way to measure battery?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:27 am 
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atzmark wrote:
Wow...so if I do the "Tony test" and my battery only has 35% of original capacity, the dealer will replace the battery (under California state warranty) on my say so, lol.
No such warranty that I am aware of.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the "Tony test" the only way to measure battery?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:57 pm
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Location: Salisbury, NC
atzmark wrote:
Can someone verify that there is no way for a Toyota dealer to test the capacity/degradation of the traction battery. I have been told this by two Toyota EV service departments/techs. Sounds crazy. Thanks, Mark


There is no way to test capacity (ie measured/timed electrical load on the battery), but one can certainly monitor what the BMS is reporting: every Toyota dealer will have the Techstream software and interface cable; hacked versions are also available on eBay and Amazon. By selecting the 'EV' ECU from the main menu, and then choosing 'Data List', the battery remaining kWhr will be displayed.

When I charge to standard charge, 36 kWhr is reported:
Image

Topping off with an extended charge, my 60k mile pack reports 38 kWhr:
Image

A Toyota EV tech should also have the Tesla powertrain software, which will report remaining kWhr with improved resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the "Tony test" the only way to measure battery?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:41 am
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Thanks for the info. Any ideas how to deal with a dealer (Toyota Oxnard) who claims there is no Techstream software, and only provides Toyota "health check" diagnostics? Thanks, Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Is the "Tony test" the only way to measure battery?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:46 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Ukraine
atzmark wrote:
... Any ideas how to deal with a dealer (Toyota Oxnard) who claims there is no Techstream software, and only provides Toyota "health check" diagnostics? ...

If they can do it:
Image ,

they MUST do it:
Image
!


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