Cannot charge

[asavage]

(the EVSE links in this post, except OpenEVSE, are put there by the forum software and do not have my endorsement)

Everybody's got their favorite EVSE (and do use 'EVSE', rather than 'chrger', it'll save a lot of confusion).

I have a three-year-old OpenEVSE and love it. In the last six months, I bought two more. It has evolved and I'm not sure I like the new clear cover, as there's a white LED inside that turns the EVSE into a nightlight. I have one installed in a remote carport, and it worked out OK to have that nightlight effect, but I would need to disable it or find a software solution to turn it off if I had it installed at my house.

OpenEVSE = it's open (software, hardware, schematics). Good support. Great hardware in the versions made in the last five years.

It can be purchased as a DIY kit, or assembled; I've purchased all three of mine assembled, due to time constraints. $500 plus shipping.

If you buy the Advanced version, it has wi-fi. You can do scheduled charging (I am not currently using this feature), and you have to use your PC or phone to do that, you can't program it from the front panel. Install on a 50A circuit and it'll do 40A charging to a RAV4EV.

(last I checked, the built-in webserver still didn't do https, although it was scheduled to be upgraded fairly soon. If you're security anal, this is a consideration.)

 

[10basetom]

OpenEVSE = it's open (software, hardware, schematics). Good support. Great hardware in the versions made in the last five years.

It can be purchased as a DIY kit, or assembled; I've purchased all three of mine assembled, due to time constraints. $500 plus shipping.

If you buy the Advanced version, it has wi-fi. You can do scheduled charging (I am not currently using this feature), and you have to use your PC or phone to do that, you can't program it from the front panel. Install on a 50A circuit and it'll do 40A charging to a RAV4EV.

Awesome, great info -- thanks @Al Savage! I'm currently using one of those $200 Chinese EVSE that I got on Amazon awhile back, so maybe you get what you pay for. I will look into getting a prebuilt OpenEVSE.

 

[alflash]

Unfortunately, tech26 didn't post the pictures for that fuse replacement where we can see them. I reached out to him via email a while back, hoping to get those pics, no dice.
My experience with electronics fuses is that they very rarely blow for no reason

The RAV4 EV onboard charger is fairly expensive when they come up for sale used (I think I saw one on eBay last week for $1500). I have it on good authority that the Model S Gen 1 onboard charger can be substituted, but its firmware must be re-flashed to work with the RAV4 EV, and it's hard to do that "in the wild".

I did not make a Diagnose for this car, but described possible options. Since I'm not aware of the actual diagnostic results (DTC, Data Stream, etc.).
In my practice, approximately 3-5% of all RAB4EV malfunctions are caused by a Charger malfunction. In several cases, replacing this fuse was sufficient http://alflash.com.ua/2020/images/charger_fuse.jpg
Unfortunately, sometimes this was not enough.
I know of one case confirming the possibility of installing a Tesla S Charger in RAV4EV.

 

[dstjohn99]

I have photos of the charger fuse location and some steps along the way. I will say that it was necessary (and arduous) to completely remove the on-board charger from the Rav4. Then the top cover is removed and several other connections are removed. Finally you are able to remove the charger housing from the base plate. But there are still more screws/connectors to remove the insulation cover over the fuses without damage, and finally test and replace the fuses.

It is no easy task, and now that I know how to do it, it would likely still take 6 to eight hours to complete start to finish. Below is a link to some photos that may be helpful.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kTX7tUQfBnt8aVAZ9

 

[10basetom]

I spoke with the Toyota service manager and he thinks my charging cable shorted something in the charging connector and that system error code is going to prevent charging until it's reset, which they will do for me when I bring it in.

They recommend I don't plug my existing cables again to prevent this in the future. This seems suspect to me since both the original 120V cable that came with the car and the aftermarket 240V cable suddenly causes a short when plugged in? Hmm...that seems like too much if a coincidence they can both fail at the same time. I have a feeling something else is going on here. My next option is to order a new EVSE and see whether that changes anything.

 

[alflash]

I spoke with the Toyota service manager and he thinks my charging cable shorted something in the charging connector and that system error code is going to prevent charging until it's reset, which they will do for me when I bring it in.

They recommend I don't plug my existing cables again to prevent this in the future. This seems suspect to me since both the original 120V cable that came with the car and the aftermarket 240V cable suddenly causes a short when plugged in? Hmm...that seems like too much if a coincidence they can both fail at the same time. I have a feeling something else is going on here. My next option is to order a new EVSE and see whether that changes anything.

As for me, his explanations are very unconvincing.
Each malfunction must be documented.
What error code is not erased he told you?

 

[asavage]

Thanks for posting those, much better than nothing, and gives a sense of the overall job.

I searched and didn't find a previous post here by you about your having to replace the onboard chrger's fuse; how long ago was that, and did it only occur the once?

Perhaps this is one of those units where the fuse truly protects against a rare event. It's a shame Tesla designed the fuses in the DC-DC Converter and onboard chrger to be so bloody difficult to replace, since at least on the DC-DC it's a very common failure (due to the AC Compressor or heater going overcurrent).

 

[alflash]

I have photos of the charger fuse location and some steps along the way. I will say that it was necessary (and arduous) to completely remove the on-board charger from the Rav4. Then the top cover is removed and several other connections are removed. Finally you are able to remove the charger housing from the base plate. But there are still more screws/connectors to remove the insulation cover over the fuses without damage, and finally test and replace the fuses.

It is no easy task, and now that I know how to do it, it would likely still take 6 to eight hours to complete start to finish. Below is a link to some photos that may be helpful.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kTX7tUQfBnt8aVAZ9

Thanks for the pictures.
What were the symptoms of a fuse malfunction on this car?

 

[10basetom]

As for me, his explanations are very unconvincing.
Each malfunction must be documented.
What error code is not erased he told you?

I will be sure to ask for exact error codes when I bring car in this week.

Thank you @dstjohn99 for posting these photos. I asked the service manager whether he can point the EV technician to this thread in case it helps any but they have a policy against that so no go.

 

[alflash]

As for me, his explanations are very unconvincing.
Each malfunction must be documented.
What error code is not erased he told you?

I will be sure to ask for exact error codes when I bring car in this week.

Thank you @dstjohn99 for posting these photos.
I asked the service manager whether he can point the EV technician to this thread in case it helps any but they have a policy against that so no go.

Ok.
Is it really interesting for someone to read about their defect / omissions? Surely they are not interested.
Their policy does not recommend getting acquainted with the practice of repairing and diagnosing a RAV4EV car? At least strange.

 

[10basetom]

After resetting the charging error code, the car was able to be charged normally again at the dealership. This suggests something is wrong with my EVSE, so I will look to replace it.

I'm planning to get this:
https://store.openevse.com/collections/all-products/products/advanced-series-40a-portable-station

However, it doesn't seem like this product comes with a NEMA 10-30 adapter. Will I need to build one myself or hire an electrician to convert my 10-30 outlet to support this EVSE? I read the link below, but the suggestions are beyond my expertise.

https://openev.freshdesk.com/support/discussions/topics/6000033612

Update: never mind, I found this - https://www.homedepot.com/p/AC-WORKS-1-5-ft-EVSE-30-Amp-3-Prong-NEMA-10-30P-Dryer-Plug-to-50-Amp-Electric-Vehicle-Adapter-Cord-for-Tesla-Model-S-EV1030MS-018/301636644

 

[asavage]

That "portable" model is not different from the non-portable model, except it has no display. I recommend springing for the one with the display, as even with visible feedback setting up the wi-fi does not always go smoothly IME.

As for the 14-50 to 10-30P adapter, HD's price is pretty high IMO; you might scan some of these alternatives (watch out for the variety of different 10-30P plugs, though).

 

[alflash]

After resetting the charging error code, the car was able to be charged normally again at the dealership. This suggests something is wrong with my EVSE, so I will look to replace it.
...

Questions to my understanding. I understand correctly that you are categorically refused to tell you which code (from the "CHG_ ..." series) was read?
Was "charged normally again at the dealership" with their charger or yours?

External symptom of malfunction (stop charging) simultaneous blinking of both charging mode indicators for 10 seconds (19 times) or do they just go out (off)?

 

[asavage]

For dealerships in the US, it is common to give them money for diagnostics and for them to refuse to, in return, furnish any codes. This is not unusual.

 

[alflash]

For dealerships in the US, it is common to give them money for diagnostics and for them to refuse to, in return, furnish any codes. This is not unusual.

I will repeat myself. The Doctor (Technician) did tests on the patient (Car) and refuses to inform* the patient (client/owner) of their documentary results?
And this situation* is also normal/common?

* Especially if it's for money

 

[asavage]

You can rail at the situation as many times as you wish, but it will not change the situation: the dealerships here will take your money -- insist on payment -- and not divulge how they achieve their diagnosis.

They are not required to, either. There's no legal reason to require them.

 

[alflash]

You can rail at the situation as many times as you wish, but it will not change the situation: the dealerships here will take your money -- insist on payment -- and not divulge how they achieve their diagnosis.

They are not required to, either. There's no legal reason to require them.

OK. Thanks for clarification.

And then what to do if their diagnosis turns out to be wrong?
Who will take the loss in such a situation?

Note. I do not rail the situation, but only ask questions.
And I'm not asking HOW the diagnosis was obtained, I am asking about access to the results of the "analyzes".

I can only regret that it is not always (not for everyone) customary to inform the client and confirm conclusions, for example, with such information in case of HV Charge failure ((in this case, due to a malfunction of the external charger aka CCID)

 

[dstjohn99]

[/quote]Thanks for the pictures.
What were the symptoms of a fuse malfunction on this car?[/quote]

I went to use the car and realized it did not charge. I reconnected the charger and started a charge. It tried to start charging a couple of (few?) times but was not successful. I tried a different charger with similar results.

I have not replaced these fuses before. My car has about 85k miles.

 

[alflash]

Thanks for the pictures. What were the symptoms of a fuse malfunction on this car?

I went to use the car and realized it did not charge. I reconnected the charger and started a charge. It tried to start charging a couple of (few?) times but was not successful. I tried a different charger with similar results.

I have not replaced these fuses before. My car has about 85k miles.

"Behavior" of the two side indicators in this case? Or did they not respond at all when the charging cable was plugged in?
And if they did, how exactly?

 

[asavage]

And I'm not asking HOW the diagnosis was obtained, I am asking about access to the results of the "analyzes".

I can only regret that it is not always (not for everyone) customary to inform the client and confirm conclusions, for example, with such information in case of HV Charge failure ((in this case, due to a malfunction of the external charger aka CCID)

The dealership system in the US is generally corrupt. Now that proprietary tools -- beyond legal requirement of the OBDII legislation -- are required to perform diagnostics, and again proprietary equipment to encode/flash/marry new or used replacement parts to work with a vehicle's other systems, this bottleneck/stranglehold has gotten much worse in the past two decades.

Even Tesla participates in this system, requiring USD$100/day for access to online parts/service information, and they only allowed even that because of legislation in Massachusetts.

Twenty years ago, I was very much of the philosophy that, "if you use the software, pay for the software". Times have changed, and bless the hackers that make these proprietary, expensive, or unavailable software tools now available for my personal use. Frankly, I feel better paying a hacker "crook" for a tool to allow me to repair my own vehicle, than paying a corrupt system to do the same.