Toyota Rav4 EV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: Replace horn with REAL horn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:09 am
Posts: 165
TonyWilliams wrote:
Ya, ok. I think this is a stretch beyond stretches, but you seem convinced. Removing a plastic cover "voids the warranty" is just crazy. Good luck.
Not convinced; just looking for a definitive rebuttal. Warranties are written by lawyers, not message board posters. So despite it seeming like your argument is valid, without a verified legal opinion, I'm not going to jeopardize my warranty. I really want to replace that OEM kid's horn, but I'd just like to see some evidence that other customers of any brand of electric vehicle have made modifications, been challenged by the dealership on a warranty claim, and prevailed against the dealership despite the mods. I really don't want to be the test case!


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 Post subject: Re: Replace horn with REAL horn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:30 am
Posts: 132
Location: Gardena, CA
The way I see it, it's not too different from computers: If you buy a computer from a manufacturer, then upgrade it with third party memory, you should take it out and put in the stock memory configuration before sending it in for a diagnostic or warranty claim. 90% of the time, they won't care if you did an upgrade, even if you just left it in there; even for manufacturers that do not support any upgrades whatsoever.

Could something go wrong if you try to install the horn yourself? of course there's always a greater possibility versus doing absolutely nothing. with my luck, i'll probably just stare at it and it will catch fire.

Image

However, since according to Tony, Toyota provides instructions on how to remove the motor compartment cover. if they really didn't want you digging around in there with the threat of voiding your warranty, they probably wouldn't include that section in the manual.

That said, if you have another car that you can practice on to get more comfortable with the process, that's something to try doing first to decide if it is for you. Figure out how to install it and also how to put your OEM horn back in before sending it in for servicing. Tony showed us at the meet this past weekend how to do it and it really couldn't be simpler. and if you're still not comfortable doing that and don't want to fork out $200 to have a "warranty voiding professional" installation, (and i have no idea who would even think of doing that), then looks like you'll just have to put up with the toy horn.

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2012 RAV4EV - VIN 1323 - White Blizzard - Gardena, CA
Meep Meep -> Honk! Honk! Mod


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 Post subject: Re: Replace horn with REAL horn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:09 am
Posts: 165
Where are these meetings? I'm in Northridge, so my Rav4 EV wouldn't make it all the way to San Diego unless I drove like a hypermiler!

Did anyone take photos of the process at this meeting where Tony showed how to replace the horn? The close-up photo in the first post of this thread isn't very helpful, unfortunately. I'd love to give this a shot if it's just taking off a piece of plastic and unhooking the OEM horn. Just want to see the process before I touch my own car.

I found this photo online, but I don't know if it's accurate since it's an older ICE Rav4:

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 Post subject: Re: Replace horn with REAL horn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:30 am
Posts: 132
Location: Gardena, CA
I wish I would have taken some photos, but the horn location looks about right on the posting you put. I'm from Gardena and made it to Poway with about 18 miles to spare driving on cruise control at 66 mph 95% of the way and no climate control). I did much better on the way back and had over 30 miles to spare. from northridge is cutting it close though, but I think you can do it if you have a full battery and did some light runzoni downhill. :)

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2012 RAV4EV - VIN 1323 - White Blizzard - Gardena, CA
Meep Meep -> Honk! Honk! Mod


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 Post subject: Re: Replace horn with REAL horn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 3834
Location: San Diego
Blastphemy wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
Ya, ok. I think this is a stretch beyond stretches, but you seem convinced. Removing a plastic cover "voids the warranty" is just crazy. Good luck.
Not convinced; just looking for a definitive rebuttal. Warranties are written by lawyers, not message board posters. So despite it seeming like your argument is valid, without a verified legal opinion, I'm not going to jeopardize my warranty. I really want to replace that OEM kid's horn, but I'd just like to see some evidence that other customers of any brand of electric vehicle have made modifications, been challenged by the dealership on a warranty claim, and prevailed against the dealership despite the mods. I really don't want to be the test case!


My car has the horn mod. Guess what? Toyota and Tesla have replaced the entire motor / inverter / gearbox assembly at great warranty cost to them. They also dropped the entire battery assembly when they replaced my charge port under warranty. These were all done at no cost to me, in addition to other warranty claims and all service.

There are a BAZILLION warranty claims that are challenged, and TONS of case law on it. There are long standing laws all for your review. You're operating from fear, and I completely understand that reaction. Get educated and eliminate the fear.

I do not play lawyer on the interent. No client / attorney relationship has been established.


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 Post subject: Re: Replace horn with REAL horn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
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Location: San Diego
Blastphemy wrote:

I found this photo online, but I don't know if it's accurate since it's an older ICE Rav4:



It is exactly accurate. The two round horns are on the drivers side of the car as the photo depicts. I recommend removing both the plastic cover and the two bolts that hold the top of the radiator. That way, you can push that a few inches toward the motor assembly and make it easier to get your hand in there to remove the one wire and one bolt per horn.


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 Post subject: Re: Replace horn with REAL horn
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 3834
Location: San Diego
Blastphemy wrote:
Where are these meetings? I'm in Northridge, so my Rav4 EV wouldn't make it all the way to San Diego...



Here's the thread:

viewtopic.php?p=289#p289

Yes, Northridge is about 145 miles away. You could make it with no heat at 60mph.


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 Post subject: Re: Replace horn with REAL horn
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:09 am
Posts: 165
I corresponded with the service manager at my dealership via e-mail, and he conceded in writing that replacing the horn does not void the factory warranty. It only voids anything that the aftermarket part causes to break either during installation or operation (which is unlikely for a low voltage horn).

So now I'm good to go - just gotta figure out how to do it and get up the nerve to stick my hands where Toyota would prefer I don't :D


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 Post subject: Re: Replace horn with REAL horn
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 3834
Location: San Diego
Blastphemy wrote:
I corresponded with the service manager at my dealership via e-mail, and he conceded in writing that replacing the horn does not void the factory warranty. It only voids anything that the aftermarket part causes to break either during installation or operation (which is unlikely for a low voltage horn).

So now I'm good to go...


So, in other words, exactly what the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act that I posted previously requires from the dealer / manufacturer.


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 Post subject: Re: Replace horn with REAL horn
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:09 am
Posts: 165
TonyWilliams wrote:
So, in other words, exactly what the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act that I posted previously requires from the dealer / manufacturer.
No, he referenced another source; something in the California statutes.


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