Toyota Rav4 EV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest RAV4 EV Toyota Extended Warranty
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:05 am 
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co2112 wrote:
So can I get an extended warranty for a used Rav4 if it is over 36k miles and not coming off lease? I bought a used 2013 with 65K miles and my current Toyota dealership only offered 3-year/36k mile platinum warranty. I'd rather have a longer term and mileage based on my commute which is about 2,000 miles per month.
If you're still covered by the 3/36k factory bumper-to-bumper warranty, you can buy the "New Car" extended warranty which goes up to 10yr/125k, which is counted from initial service. You will have to buy the "Used Car" warranty which is counted from time of used purchase. I think there is a cap on the total miles of coverage, so if you're starting from 65k, they probably can't sell you an additional 50k. I'm just guessing, but if you found a car with fewer miles on it, say 45k, you might be able to buy the warranty for an additional 50k.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest RAV4 EV Toyota Extended Warranty
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:00 am 
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I am in the process of getting an extended warranty on our 2013 RAV-EV, and appreciate all the info you folks have posted. It has been very helpful!!

One question: I looked at the Toyota brochure on the warranty and (1) it is directed only to ICE and hybrid vehicles, and (2) states that it covers "MECHANICAL breakdown of the parts listed".

I am assuming for the moment that the EV parts equates to the EV-related hybrid parts that are listed, but a MECHANICAL breakdown of a control computer or ECU, for example, is meaningless since failures will be electrical (or software-driven) in reality.

How have you dealt with this, and with what results, when purchasing the warranty?

Also, have any of you put ina claim under the extended warranty? if so for what, and was the claim accepted without hassle?

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest RAV4 EV Toyota Extended Warranty
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:54 am 
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Location: Los Altos, CA
These are some relevant portions of the actual Vehicle Service Agreement.
Quote:
...It provides for the repair of mechanical failures of covered components specified in this Agreement. As used herein, "mechanical failure" means the failure of a component under recommended manufacturer operating and maintenance conditions to perform the function for which it was designed as a result of material defects or workmanship; a "covered component" means a vehicle's part or system described at the end of this booklet.

The last page of the booklet has this language.
Quote:
PLATINUM VEHICLE SERVICE AGREEMENTS - COVERED COMPONENTS

ALL MANUFACTURER-ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT PARTS INSTALLED BY THE MANUFACTURER OR YOUR SELLING DEALER ARE COVERED UNDER THIS AGREEMENT FOR MECHANICAL FAILURE, UNLESS OTHERWISE EXCLUDED. THE ITEMS LISTED BELOW ARE NOT COVERED BY PLATINUM AGREEMENTS.

It goes on to list a whole lot of things like Accessory Drive Belts; Batteries; Brake Linings, Pads and Shoes, Rotors and Drums; Bumpers; Carpet... etc. There are also a whole lot of specific Hybrid and Fuel Cell components. However, there are no EV specific components listed. This is actually in our favor because everything is covered "Unless Otherwise Excluded".

There are also two full pages of exclusions that include things like failure to properly maintain the vehicle, or if the vehicle has been used for plowing snow, racing, used for hire to public, or to transport people for hire. This appears to give TFS grounds to deny a claim if you have used the car for Uber/Lyft like services. Of course, the burden of proof is on them.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest RAV4 EV Toyota Extended Warranty
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:03 pm 
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Thanks for the response, Miimura.

The word "mechanical" is still in there and, in the event of a dispute, could become a serious issue IMHO unless Toyota has a record of interpreting the phrase in our favor. The "Everything is covered" language you quoted is for mechanical failure, and the exclusions could therefore be argued as applying only to mechanical failures.

Also, the definition of "mechanical failure" is that the part failed to perform as "a result of material defects or workmanship" I am not certain what the life expectancy of an ECU is, for example, and how you can tell if there was such a defect. How do you prove this if push comes to shove? Mechanical failures seem to me to be much easier to recognize, and I see another issue here.

OTOH, insuring against mechanical failure of ECU's and other electronic hardware seems illusory as a contractual obligation so the interpretation ignoring that limitation may be the correct one.

Perhaps I am being too cynical, but it comes with years of dealing with auto dealers and insurance companies, and that's why I had asked about actual claim experience. My concerns may be detached from reality, but I have no way to tell for certain.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest RAV4 EV Toyota Extended Warranty
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:54 pm 
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I did a bit more research. It appears that the ECU (and other drivetrain electronics) are explicitly covered for 5 years/60K miles under the original "new car" warranty. (see http://www.myrav4ev.com/docs/RAV4EV_War ... enance.pdf ) so my concerns about the extended warranty may (?) be justified.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest RAV4 EV Toyota Extended Warranty
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:57 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Bob wrote:
The word "mechanical" is still in there and, in the event of a dispute, could become a serious issue IMHO unless Toyota has a record of interpreting the phrase in our favor. The "Everything is covered" language you quoted is for mechanical failure, and the exclusions could therefore be argued as applying only to mechanical failures.

Also, the definition of "mechanical failure" is that the part failed to perform as "a result of material defects or workmanship" I am not certain what the life expectancy of an ECU is, for example, and how you can tell if there was such a defect. How do you prove this if push comes to shove? Mechanical failures seem to me to be much easier to recognize, and I see another issue here.

Hi Bob, you messaged me privately to ask my opinion... I think you're interpreting "mechanical" differently. As per Toyota's own definition, they're saying that "mechanical failure" means a component fails to perform the function for which it was designed (as long as it wasn't abused/used inappropriately) – no conditions about metal fatigue vs. electrical vs. software-induced, etc. You seem to be concerned that "mechanical failure" might mean "non-electrical failure". If Toyota's own definition doesn't alleviate your concerns, consider all of the electrical components, including computer equipment, in a non-EV Toyota. Don't you believe that Toyota (and every other auto manufacturer) regularly includes failures of those kinds of equipment under warranty? I do. Certainly you would have heard about it if Toyota or others refused to repair such equipment.

Regarding the phrase "material defect" – we're not talking physical materials here:
https://definitions.uslegal.com/m/material-defect/"
Quote:
According to 15 USCS § 6602 (4), [Title 15. Commerce and Trade; Chapter 92. Year 2000 Computer Date Change] the term material defect means “a defect in any item, whether tangible or intangible, or in the provision of a service, that substantially prevents the item or service from operating or functioning as designed or according to its specifications. The term "material defect" does not include a defect that--

(A) has an insignificant or de minimis effect on the operation or functioning of an item or computer program;
(B) affects only a component of an item or program that, as a whole, substantially operates or functions as designed; or
(C) has an insignificant or de minimis effect on the efficacy of the service provided.”

So, I think everything's fine. "Mechanical failure" here does not imply "non-electrical failure", "material defect" does not imply "physical defect". Go for the extended warranty.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest RAV4 EV Toyota Extended Warranty
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:22 pm 
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Good points, Incred. I'm feeling alot better about it now. Thanks for the prompt response.
Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest RAV4 EV Toyota Extended Warranty
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:31 am 
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Location: San Diego
Bob wrote:
Good points, Incred. I'm feeling alot better about it now. Thanks for the prompt response.
Bob


The various Toyota warranties has been offered without "malice". They really want to get your car fixed, overall, without a huge hassle.

That's completely different than an aftermarket warranty sold by a dealer, which really isn't going to do much beyond make a profit for the dealer and the company offering the warranty.

I do not recommend non-Toyota warranties.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest RAV4 EV Toyota Extended Warranty
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:37 am 
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Thanks, Tony.

I got a copy of the warranty Agreement from the dealer and see what you and Incred are talking about. I'm good to go. Thanks to both of you for the guidance.

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest RAV4 EV Toyota Extended Warranty
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:40 am 
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Location: Los Altos, CA
Bob wrote:
Thanks, Tony.

I got a copy of the warranty Agreement from the dealer and see what you and Incred are talking about. I'm good to go. Thanks to both of you for the guidance.

Bob
Good for you. I was never able to see a copy of the actual agreement until I received my purchased copy in the mail. I was only given the brochure, which is somewhat lacking in specifics.

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