Toyota Rav4 EV Forum

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 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:07 pm 
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Time will tell what program will cost less after 2018.


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:27 pm 
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smkettner wrote:
Time will tell what program will cost less after 2018.


Well, after 2017, for the 2018 model year.

All credits will be capped at 3 per car, and the percentage of credits goes up from 0.79% to 2%.

I'm guessing a nice Tesla Model E will be the 2018 Toyota SupraE. I'm not kidding. No way will a hydrogen car get the job done in 2018.

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 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:36 pm 
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TonyWilliams wrote:
All credits will be capped at 3 per car, and the percentage of credits goes up from 0.79% to 2%.

I'm guessing a nice Tesla Model E will be the 2018 Toyota SupraE. I'm not kidding. No way will a hydrogen car get the job done in 2018.
The question is, how much will Toyota have to discount that car to attract enough buyers? People will see through the fact that it's a cosmetically different Model E. I would insist on a $7.5k discount vs. comparable Model E just because I'd rather support Tesla than help Toyota hit their numbers.

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 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:09 pm 
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The extremely limited production Toyota hydrogen car is $97,000:

http://insideevs.com/2015-toyota-honda- ... ent-413295

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 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:21 pm 
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TonyWilliams wrote:
The extremely limited production Toyota hydrogen car is $97,000:



What a screaming great deal! :lol:

OK, I can see a few being sold to collectors for the novelty factor. I suspect that Toyota will have to offer leases based on a much-reduced cost, and then they will mostly be used in fleets that have convenient access to H2 facilities.

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 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:14 pm 
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Toyota is giving $9,000 off the RAV4-EV and to be fair has 3x the amount to give on the fuel cell vehicle for equivalent credits.
That still leaves $70,000 to amortize into the lease. Can't imagine how this saves money for compliance.


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:35 pm 
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smkettner wrote:
Toyota is giving $9,000 off the RAV4-EV and to be fair has 3x the amount to give on the fuel cell vehicle for equivalent credits.
That still leaves $70,000 to amortize into the lease. Can't imagine how this saves money for compliance.
Clearly it's not such a simple equation. They might think that going to HFCs instead of EVs makes them look more "innovative", so they're banking on some sort of PR value there. Because of the non-existent infrastructure they know nobody will take them out of California. They will reclaim them all after the leases are up so they don't have to worry about continuously supporting the cars. They might've taken advantage of some government money on the table specifically allocated to hydrogen for their R&D costs. Showing how nobody wants the cars might make it easier for them to just get rid of the whole CARB quota thing going forward. Who knows what else...

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 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:53 am 
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fooljoe wrote:
smkettner wrote:
Toyota is giving $9,000 off the RAV4-EV and to be fair has 3x the amount to give on the fuel cell vehicle for equivalent credits.
That still leaves $70,000 to amortize into the lease. Can't imagine how this saves money for compliance.
Clearly it's not such a simple equation. They might think that going to HFCs instead of EVs makes them look more "innovative", so they're banking on some sort of PR value there. Because of the non-existent infrastructure they know nobody will take them out of California. They will reclaim them all after the leases are up so they don't have to worry about continuously supporting the cars. They might've taken advantage of some government money on the table specifically allocated to hydrogen for their R&D costs. Showing how nobody wants the cars might make it easier for them to just get rid of the whole CARB quota thing going forward. Who knows what else...


History does repeat. The last time the Rav4 EV project ended (and CARB folded under pressure of a lawsuit) in 2000-2003, all the talk from President Bush on down the pecking order was hydrogen... That never materialized.

Big oil needs hydrogen instead of electric cars, but truthfully the car makers don't want either, EV's or hydrogen because they make money building lower cost oil cars that they build by the millions every year.

They are saying in the article quoted above that hydrogen will be cheaper ($97,000 minus about 30%) in the 2020's. Hydrogen won't sell then either, and neither will electric, until the $20k-$30k the refuels fast and has 200-300 mile range.

Protocol .......... US Deployed . World Deployed .... US Cars .... Worldwide Cars
Hydrogen ...........24........................40....................100.............200
Frankenplug ...... 10 ........................50....................100........... 500 ... (moribund)
CHAdeMO ......... 600 ................... 4,000 ............. 50,000 .... 130,000 (growing fast)
Supercharger .... 400 ......................450 .............. 30,000 ..... 40,000 (extreme growth)

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 Post subject: Re: Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? What happens after 2014 ?
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 9:31 am 
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As expected...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-0 ... qus_thread

Tesla Motors Inc. (TSLA), the electric-car maker planning to build the world’s largest battery plant, said its deal to supply Toyota Motor Corp. (7203) with battery packs and motors for a rechargeable crossover will conclude this year.

Toyota, which owns a 2.4 percent stake in Palo Alto, California-based Tesla, said in May 2012 it would buy the company’s components for 2,600 electric RAV4 EVs over three years. Elon Musk, Tesla’s chief executive officer, had said he expected Toyota to extend the agreement that was initially worth as much as $100 million, based on a July 2011 filing.

“Toyota is expected to end the current RAV4 EV model this year,” Tesla said yesterday in a quarterly filing. While the supply deal generated $15.1 million of revenue for Tesla in the quarter that ended March 31, “our production activities under this program are expected to end in 2014,” Tesla said.

Conclusion of the Toyota program comes as Tesla expands global sales of Model S sedans, priced starting at $71,000, and readies the electric Model X crossover for delivery in 2015 as well as a lower-priced rechargeable sedan due in two to three years. The company also is ramping up supplies of components for investor Daimler AG (DAI)’s electric Mercedes B-Class car as it plans a battery “gigafactory” to cut lithium-ion cell costs by 30 percent.


Photographer: Patrick T. Fallon/Bloomberg
Toyota Motor Corp., which owns a 2.4 percent stake in Palo Alto, California-based Tesla... Read More
Toyota hasn’t announced plans to conclude the RAV4 EV program, said John Hanson, a company spokesman.

[typical double speak... of course they didn't announce it or it might be even harder to unload the albatross car. The fact that they are only building 2600, yes, that's been announced many times, and that they will have a hydrogen car for CARB-ZEV compliance - Tony]

“This was a project for a specific number of vehicles that we planned to sell for a specific number of years,” Hanson said. “We have not made any announcement about the relationship or what we’ll do with Tesla in the future.”

California Sales

Models such as the RAV4 EV sell mainly in California, which requires large automakers to offer some pollution-free vehicles. Toyota has sold 1,594 electric RAV4s since 2012 through April, according to reports from the company.

In 2015, Toyota is to begin California sales of a hydrogen fuel cell sedan, another type of zero-emission vehicle that fulfills California’s ZEV mandate.

Tesla rose 2.1 percent to $182.26 yesterday at the close in New York and has gained 21 percent this year. Toyota’s American depositary receipts rose 0.7 percent to $108.87 in New York and have fallen 11 percent this year.

To contact the reporter on this story: Alan Ohnsman in Los Angeles at aohnsman@bloomberg.net

To contact the editors responsible for this story: Jamie Butters at jbutters@bloomberg.net

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 Post subject: The END of RAV4 EV
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:04 pm 
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Tesla discontinue supplying toyota with its bateries. The result: No more RAV 4 EVs....Does that mean RAV 4EV becomes an endangered species??


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