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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - 12-volt battery replacement
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:37 am 
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Posts: 1838
Location: Los Altos, CA
TonyWilliams wrote:
I think I’m going to buy the larger Group 27 battery and see what needs to be modified.

Yes, the Group 24F Interstate battery will just drop in; no modifications required.

Tony, did you get around to trying the Group 27 battery?
Anything useful to report?

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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - 12-volt battery replacement
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:06 pm
Posts: 15
Location: MA
miimura wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
I think I’m going to buy the larger Group 27 battery and see what needs to be modified.

Yes, the Group 24F Interstate battery will just drop in; no modifications required.

Tony, did you get around to trying the Group 27 battery?
Anything useful to report?


Jan 21 I drove our 2013 RAV4EV with Optima yellow top battery to dealer for warranty work on peeling paint. IRA Toyota Danvers, MA got approval to do work including a rental Corolla. Told them to charge it. They found more paint to repair & haven't gotten approval for extra areas yet. Again, told them to charge it. 2/20 found out they didn't charge it even though there's a Level 2 plug outside & delivered 120V EVSE at 5PM. Of course, it wouldn't turn on, won't accept a charge. Today they're supposed to check the Optima, see if it accepts a charge & try 120V EVSE again.
I expect they ruined the Optima & should replace it. What's the best 12V including use with a 1200W pure sine inverter? Waiting to hear modifications for Interstate M-27DC...

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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - 12-volt battery replacement
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:43 pm 
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Location: MA
We may have dodged a bullet. They say car now turns on & 77% SOC. In addition to charging, I told them to turn on for 15 min every week.
Still following topic for 12V battery replacement recommendations. Is the 12V battery test they do at dealer or auto parts store good or is there a 'Tony test' 12V version?

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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - 12-volt battery replacement
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1838
Location: Los Altos, CA
chrisspy wrote:
We may have dodged a bullet. They say car now turns on & 77% SOC. In addition to charging, I told them to turn on for 15 min every week.
Still following topic for 12V battery replacement recommendations. Is the 12V battery test they do at dealer or auto parts store good or is there a 'Tony test' 12V version?

Normal 12V lead acid battery tests are perfectly valid.

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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - 12-volt battery replacement
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:06 pm
Posts: 15
Location: MA
miimura wrote:
chrisspy wrote:
We may have dodged a bullet. They say car now turns on & 77% SOC. In addition to charging, I told them to turn on for 15 min every week.
Still following topic for 12V battery replacement recommendations. Is the 12V battery test they do at dealer or auto parts store good or is there a 'Tony test' 12V version?

Normal 12V lead acid battery tests are perfectly valid.

Thanks.
Wouldn't a solar trickle charger solve many of the shortcomings of the 12V battery occurring when leaving the car off for a week or more? $30 7W at https://www.harborfreight.com/7-watt-so ... 64801.html
I like the idea of having a solar trickle charger I can use elsewhere instead of spending the $30 on the 12V to upgrade just it, assuming all else is equal.
During the week or more the car is left off AND plugged in to Level 1 or 2; does the system maintain the 12V battery (with a constant or periodic charge)? I assume not but am looking for confirmation.

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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - 12-volt battery replacement
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:32 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1838
Location: Los Altos, CA
chrisspy wrote:
miimura wrote:
chrisspy wrote:
We may have dodged a bullet. They say car now turns on & 77% SOC. In addition to charging, I told them to turn on for 15 min every week.
Still following topic for 12V battery replacement recommendations. Is the 12V battery test they do at dealer or auto parts store good or is there a 'Tony test' 12V version?

Normal 12V lead acid battery tests are perfectly valid.

Thanks.
Wouldn't a solar trickle charger solve many of the shortcomings of the 12V battery occurring when leaving the car off for a week or more? $30 7W at https://www.harborfreight.com/7-watt-so ... 64801.html
I like the idea of having a solar trickle charger I can use elsewhere instead of spending the $30 on the 12V to upgrade just it, assuming all else is equal.
During the week or more the car is left off AND plugged in to Level 1 or 2; does the system maintain the 12V battery (with a constant or periodic charge)? I assume not but am looking for confirmation.

If you are going to do something like putting a solar panel on the dashboard when the car is parked outdoors, that will help. However, you need to find a way to inject the 12V power while the car is OFF. Just plugging into the 12V power port in front of the gear selector won't work.

The 12V will only be charged when the car is actively charging. All the rest of the time that it is plugged in and NOT charging, it will slowly drain the 12V. One thing you could do is to set up a recurring schedule to do Pre-Climate and charge every day or a couple times per week. That will charge the 12V.

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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - 12-volt battery replacement
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:55 pm
Posts: 206
Location: Duvall, Wash.
Perhaps I've missed something. Is there a common issue with a vampire drain on the 12v battery?

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Al Savage
2014 Rav4 EV, Shoreline Blue Pearl, #2609, first use 04Jun2014, 49k miles (Aug2017), OpenEVSE 40A. First DU replacement May2018 59k.
2018 Model 3 LR AWD, blue. 9.6kw solar
1999 E300 on B100 (sold Sep2018)
http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org


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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - 12-volt battery replacement
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:06 pm
Posts: 15
Location: MA
miimura wrote:
...
If you are going to do something like putting a solar panel on the dashboard when the car is parked outdoors, that will help. However, you need to find a way to inject the 12V power while the car is OFF. Just plugging into the 12V power port in front of the gear selector won't work.

The 12V will only be charged when the car is actively charging. All the rest of the time that it is plugged in and NOT charging, it will slowly drain the 12V. One thing you could do is to set up a recurring schedule to do Pre-Climate and charge every day or a couple times per week. That will charge the 12V....


The 7W solar panel on the dash typically is wired directly to the 12V battery. I like this better than a low voltage disconnect, unless there's no light. Then I'd just remove the negative wire. Panel can be used elsewhere too.

Thanks for clarifying. Once I get the RAV4EV back I can take some measurements.

asavage, yup. You might want to read the thread.

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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - 12-volt battery replacement
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1838
Location: Los Altos, CA
asavage wrote:
Perhaps I've missed something. Is there a common issue with a vampire drain on the 12v battery?

Yes. The car has a larger than usual drain on the 12V when parked. This was evident from the start when cars would be dead sitting on dealer lots. This situation also caused many people to have a factory 12V battery that had a short life due to it being drained dead before even being sold.

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 Post subject: Re: ALL POSTS - 12-volt battery replacement
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:55 pm
Posts: 206
Location: Duvall, Wash.
chrisspy wrote:
asavage, yup. You might want to read the thread.


Sigh. I was trying to not re-read this thread. I've got five posts in this thread already; you might want to take your own advice ;) .

On the topic of 12v vampire drains, there's ONE mention by Tony of the BMS and telematics being a drain, and several about a failed Gateway computer causing a consistent 2A drain [1] [2]. That's it on the topic. Almost all the posts are about opinions on which is the best replacement battery, who's got them on sale, and ditto comments about another dead battery.

I just dragged out my low-amp clamp-on ammeter and put it on the RAV4 EV: 1.2A at about one minute after waking up the car to open the hood, and around .175ma after 20 minutes, when it went back to sleep. These readings were taken on both positive battery leads and the figures added together.

The generally accepted limit for idle current consumption is 50ma, so 175ma is high . . . but not really all that high, considering how many people seem to have had problems with dead batteries in this model.

Clamp-on low amp ammeters are notoriously inaccurate, but those reading will be within 20%, so close enough for theorizing. I suppose it's possible or even likely that the telematics and BMS fire up every so often to do their thing. I could borrow a datalogger and map the current consumption over time, but I thought I'd first ask: is 12v vampire drain a known issue with this model?

[later]

miimura wrote:
Yes. The car has a larger than usual drain on the 12V when parked. This was evident from the start when cars would be dead sitting on dealer lots. This situation also caused many people to have a factory 12V battery that had a short life due to it being drained dead before even being sold.


Thanks for that. I'd only read about the many premature 12v battery failures, hadn't seen this before.

--------------------------------

I run the Odyssey 34R-PC1500T + the Group 34 height spacer to correct the fit. The combo is a bit over $300. I own three of them for some of our vehicles (RAV4 EV, Sienna, another Sienna), they seem OK so far. The oldest one is in the RAV4 EV, and will be three years old in August.

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Regards,
Al Savage
2014 Rav4 EV, Shoreline Blue Pearl, #2609, first use 04Jun2014, 49k miles (Aug2017), OpenEVSE 40A. First DU replacement May2018 59k.
2018 Model 3 LR AWD, blue. 9.6kw solar
1999 E300 on B100 (sold Sep2018)
http://nissandiesel.dyndns.org


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