Range Decreases soon after Tony Test

mihalakj said:

so using that chart is about as annoying as disconnecting the battery for a night. Let me rephrase as I'm not trying to figure out what my range really is. I understand that the miles displayed isn't accurate. Is there an easy way to make the car forget my past driving habits and start from zero without having to disconnect the battery and wait for 4-8 hours?

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As everyone else is pointing out, just stop worrying about the range estimate and drive the car. 1) You presumably already have a pretty good idea of how far you can go. 2) You can reset the trip meter at the start of your trip and see know far you've gone at any point in order to estimate how far you can still go. 3) You can monitor the charge gauge to have an idea of how much further you can go as well. (You know, like using the old fuel gauges before we had electronic range estimates.) 4) The range estimate will adjust itself over the course of your trip anyway and become more useful the closer you get to the end of your range.

All these things combined mean you should not be bothering to disconnect the battery. It's not like a reset range estimate is anywhere near accurate anyway!

TonyWilliams said:

michael said:

I haven't don't a "Tony Test" on our RAV but its battery has faded a easily noticed amount, an amount I consider reasonable but far less than the amounts typically reported by Tesla owners who rely on "rated range".

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You can expect 10% degradation, plus or minus 5%, at 50,000 miles

Perhaps 20%, plus or minus 5% at 100,000 miles.

I'm between 15% and 20% loss at 81,000 miles.

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Compared to my '11 Leaf these numbers would be awesome but I lost 30% capacity in under 46,000 miles with it. The reason I switched to the Rav4.

I live in the north bay. Just related from temperature drops my efficiency drops from my warm weather average 3.4 miles/kWh to 2.8 and below - just with temps in the 50's. I do not use pre-climate because my possible start times varies 4 hours in any given day. I also park outside my garage. A 20 mile drive I do at least once a week---- in 75+ degree weather with a 60's overnight temp will get me 4.4 miles/Kwh. 2 days ago that same drive at 50 degrees with a 40's overnight low got me 2.6 miles/kWh. The single largest impact I have in my driving range is the wide variance in current temps and overnight temps. And both those numbers are with no climate control on. Yesterday at 55 degrees that drive was 2.8.

So given a couple days driving in the 20's - my experience is that would kill the "estimated range".

If you don't use JDemo then you can at least see your daily efficiency on entunes.

This also makes the miles per bar - range from 5.6 to 7.6+. I don't use the GOM much but I really pay attention to temps under 60 and adjust my miles per bar figure as I drive.

This discussion addresses the question I have had on all my RAV4 EVs. Like everyone, I have seen the Tony test as a way to "open up the range" after each instance. In this case instead of using a nominal 70% of battery capacity, you access 90% nominally. The question always hit me as to if it actually widened the range of charge USED by the car or was strictly a clearing of the parameters of usage history resetting to default.

I think one thing that may point to that being the default settings case is the answer to another question "what do I do when the GOM is low and I am still driving?" I think I can paraphrase Tony that you just keep going and miles keep appearing, just go slow. This implies the GOM parameters were set for a less conservative driving style over time.

I like the one comment that says just ignore to GOM and use the average consumption and nominal capacity and figure range that way.

The normal GOM behavior has nothing to do with accessing more or less battery.

That's why I recommend ignoring it. It's also why I always put GOM discussions into one thread.

The battery is exactly the same battery when fully charged, whether the GOM says 60 miles or 160 miles. The Tony-Test is used to determine what that fully charged capacity is. The typical battery of around 90% capacity (now that all cars are 3-5 years old in 2017) will have about 36-37kWh of available energy with a full charge.

Range is stored energy multiplied by consumption rate:

Range = 36kWh * X miles per kWh (consumption info can be displayed in two locations)


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How to use the 2012-2014 Toyota RAV4 EV Range Chart:

Download and print the Range Chart:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3bcv212xxsfd2vr/Rav4rangeChartV90.2.pdf?dl=0

On the car:

A. Reset Consumption meter:

1) Press mechanical "home" button below the center of the navigation screen.
2) Press "EV" softbutton
3) Then press "Energy Monitor"
4) Select "Past Record"
5) "Update"


B. Display Energy Consumption during Map display mode:

1) Press mechanical "home" button below the center of the navigation screen.
2) select "MAP"
3) select "Map Mode" in lower left corner of screen. If this is available to select, press "On", then "Map Mode".
4) select "Energy Monitor"
5) Press the "go-back symbol" in the upper right corner
6) confirm that "Consumption" is at the top-right of the display. If it says "Past Record", change to "Consumption". At the bottom-right of the display, it will show the average consumption. This will read 0.0 miles/kWh if it was properly reset. If not, go back and repeat step A.


C. Then, reset the trip odometer (black mechanical button between speedometer and energy gauge):

1) Press and release until desired trip meter is displayed
2) press and HOLD button until miles go to zero

After you have completed these steps, you're ready to plan your trip.


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First, let's stipulate that the "GOM" / estimated range on the dash is not to be used. This seems to be the hardest thing to overcome for many people.

The controlling value for range are two values:


1) Available stored kWh onboard

2) Average miles per kWh (consumption rate)


If you need to travel 120 miles, and the battery is fully charged, you might start with about 37kWh with a typical somewhat degraded RAV4 EV battery, therefore:

120 miles plus a 15% buffer equals 138 miles range required to complete the trip with a reserve.

138 / 37kWh (fully charged 90% degraded battery) = 3.7 miles per kWh required to complete the trip with a 15% reserve.

To achieve 3.7 miles per kWh is about 55-60mph, on cruise control, according to the range chart, but the speed used to meet that consumption rate could be a higher or lower speed depending on conditions (elevation changes, wind, wet or snow covered roads, low tire pressure, cabin heater use, dog left strapped on roof, etc).

There are MANY factors that affect range, and the ONLY thing that matters is the "Average Miles/kWh" from reset and how many kWh of stored energy that you started with.

If you drive 40 miles or so into your trip, and you're no where near 3.7 miles per kWh for this planned trip, YOU NEED TO SLOW DOWN!!! (Or find an alternate charging spot).

I recommend starting this trip with the cruise control on 60mph. If after 40-60 miles (just prior to the halfway point) the Average Miles/kWh are holding mostly steady at 3.4 miles/kWh, slow to 55mph.

If the Average Miles/kWh do not start climbing above 3.4 in the next 20 miles, you probably need to make sure that the heater is off, or start planning to find an alternate charging location. Slowing to 50mph on public freeways / high speed highways is probably dangerous.

Again, the GOM does not matter. If your battery is cold, it will consume more power to warm it up. If you run the cabin heater, you will consume more power. If the wind is blowing the wrong way, you will consume more power.

How will you know how much energy that your battery will hold? Do the "Tony-Test" to determine your approximate degradation.


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Rav4 EV Rated Range - Battery Degradation - "Tony-Test"

Here’s a link to “Rav4rangeChartV90.2.pdf” in my Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zp98r8qghlxm8c5/Rav4rangeChartV90.2.pdf?dl=0

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20518#p20518


RAV4 EV battery default "Rated Range" and then factor degradation using GOM:

Make sure that the battery is at room temperature, then:

1) Fully charge vehicle "extended" with the J1772 port (not CHAdeMO)

2) Battery must be near room temperature

3) Turn off cabin climate control with "OFF" button, however it will automatically go to OFF with battery disconnect

4) Disconnect the 12 volt battery negative cables (all three black cables) and leave off for several hours minimum (overnight is ideal)

Next day:

5) Reconnect 12 volt battery

6) When you open the driver's door with the key fob, the stored energy gauge will show Full (16 illuminated segments) and "LO" will display on the GOM

7) Hold foot on brake and press START button with key fob nearby

8) Wait for navigation unit to complete its start up (about 20 seconds)

9) Press START with brake pedal depressed a second time. You will hear a clunk of the main battery contactors and the dash should indicate "READY".

10) The displayed range is "RATED RANGE" at 3.5 miles per kWh

11) Divide this Rated Range by 146 to get usable battery capacity compared to new.

Example: 142 rated range / 146 = 97.2% battery capacity from new

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Additional test:

If you drive the RAV4 EV at my standard test speed of 100km / 62mph ground speed, it will go almost EXACTLY the rated range.

TEST DRIVING PROTOCOL - dry, hard surface level road with no wind or cabin climate control with new condition battery at 70F, no elevation changes, "out-and-back" or loop course to compensate for any wind, 62mph / 100km/h GROUND speed as measured by GPS.

So, if the car is new, it will bang out 146 miles and the rated range will be 146 under the prescribed conditions.

If the rated range is 135, it will go 135 miles.

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What is lost and needs to be reset with a 12 volt disconnect:

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20859#p20859

1) Stored radio / SiriusXM stations will remain, however your last station listened to will likely be gone

2) Cell phone pairings are not 100%, so I would check. i have had to delete my phone (and the car from my phone) and re-pair it

3) Map display mode

4) Volume of navigation voice notifications

5) Random play modes

6) Charge schedule will be retained, but it won't work without hitting the "SAVE" button on the previous screen

7) state selection from destination address page