Toyota Rav4 EV Forum

It is currently Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:18 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:33 am 
Offline
Site Moderator

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:50 am
Posts: 1213
Location: San Jose, CA
Ampster wrote:
Excuse my ignorance, what is a "TED"?

For my VW conversion I found some useful Amphour meters but none translated to miles like my RAV does. One displays on my Android and used the GPS to give me Amphrs per mile. I have to do the inverse calculation to compare it with the Miles per KWhrs that I get from my RAV instruments. When I charge either car at a Chargepoint EVSE I get KWhrs used. I don't think I have that from my EV Link but I do have a couple of split coil amp sensors and an interface to a home automation controller that I guess I could clamp on to the legs that feed my EVSE to get amps used for charging at home.


TED stands for The Energy Detective. It is a home energy monitoring system that measures the amperage entering your mains breaker box. This is probably a single phase, 240Vac, 100A (or 200A) service connection provided by your electric company. TED uses current clamp sensors around each leg of that high current wiring connection that transmit a signal to a remote monitoring device that attaches to a PC in your home to readout realtime power consumption.

I use a similar monitoring product that does essentially the same thing as TED, called the EnviR Home Energy Monitor, made by a company in the UK. I am in the process of converting it to a totally wireless solution with the ability to measure "whole house" consumption AND the dedicated 240V circuit to my Leviton battery charger installed in my garage. I can "monitor" the later even via the whole house sensor as well, but have to subtract any other household loads consuming power at the same time I'm charging my EV(s). This is relatively easy because late at night, early morning is when I usually recharge, when almost nothing else is using electricity, and what little other power might be drawn, is insignificant compared to a 7.7kW EV charging station.

For more information about the EnviR Home Energy Monitoring product line, go here:

http://www.currentcost.net/buynowmain.html

_________________
Owner of 2012 Classic Silver RAV4 EV, 2012 Silver VOLT & 2008 Red C6 Z06
EMW JuiceBox Basic (fully optioned & customized) EVSE L2 charging station
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550


Last edited by Dsinned on Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4113
Location: San Diego
This might be an option:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181030112898

_________________
Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4113
Location: San Diego
Ampster wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
Fortunately, we don't need GM's help for any of this. Several current EVSEs will report the kWh. Some folks use a "TED", and you can also use the actual utility meter on the EVSE (my house has a separate utility meter just for the EV).


Excuse my ignorance, what is a "TED"?


http://www.theenergydetective.com/


Quote:
For my VW conversion I found some useful Amphour meters but none translated to miles like my RAV does. One displays on my Android and used the GPS to give me Amphrs per mile.



You don't need any of these calculations. Just the miles driven, miles per kWh from the Nav screen, and if you can get it, the kWh from the EVSE to "fill it up".

It will be extremely important to know exactly what EVSE, voltage and amps used. That way, we can adjust for charger efficiency (generally lower at the slowest charge rates).


Quote:
When I charge either car at a Chargepoint EVSE I get KWhrs used. I don't think I have that from my EV Link but I do have a couple of split coil amp sensors and an interface to a home automation controller that I guess I could clamp on to the legs that feed my EVSE to get amps used for charging at home.



Yes, the Blinks and ChargePoint will give you that data online.

_________________
Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:10 am
Posts: 218
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
TonyWilliams wrote:
Ampster wrote:
Excuse my ignorance, what is a "TED"?


http://www.theenergydetective.com/



Thanks, It has a similar data collection device as my home automation device, but a standalone data reporting. Looks like lots of good data for a price.

_________________
Drove a RAV4 EV from October 2012 to November 2013
Driving a Smart ED since August 2013 and a Volt since December 2013.
Converting a VW to electric since April 2012
3.8KWhr Solar Panels on roof of home.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4113
Location: San Diego
Draft 2:

Numerous changes, but of significance is that the EPA estimates now align with 2.7 miles/kWh:

41.8kWh (41.8 * 2.7 =113 miles) = Extended Range charge = 100%

34.0kWh (34.0 * 2.7 = 92 miles) = Normal charge = about 81%

After pumping over 50kWh into the Rav4, I now believe it's possible to have 41.8kWh useable !!!


Image

_________________
Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:06 pm 
Offline
Site Moderator

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:50 am
Posts: 1213
Location: San Jose, CA
Tony, Draft 2, is starting to look much more accurate based on my (albeit) limited experience with my RAV4 EV. And I am quick to add that the "GoM" seems much more accurate as a range "predictor". To wit, my last standard charge indicated 109 miles, and my last extended charge 136 miles on the GoM. My cummulative "average" driving efficiencies for both charges were 3.1 and 3.2miles/kWh respectively. Interprolating between columns, this is almost dead on with your latest Range Chart.

As a suggestion for the next draft, I would "shade" the last couple left hand columns to reflect these results are only possible under extremely favorable driving conditions, not generally practical under most driving situations. Such results are only possible by sacrificing personal passenger comfort and driving far slower than permissable in favor of achieving absolute maximum range by using extreme "hypermiling" driving techniques. Although theoretcially possible, ranges in the "shaded" area of this chart, are not to be expected from typical drivers and operating conditions of the RAV4 EV.

Btw, there is a misleading note beneath the chart, regarding "usable" battery capacity, which should be corrected to agree with the left hand vertical scale, which now peaks at "41.8kWh".

Please keep up the good work! :mrgreen:

_________________
Owner of 2012 Classic Silver RAV4 EV, 2012 Silver VOLT & 2008 Red C6 Z06
EMW JuiceBox Basic (fully optioned & customized) EVSE L2 charging station
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550


Last edited by Dsinned on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:59 am
Posts: 20
I dont understand the range chart of RAV4 EV. could you please explain it?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:24 pm 
Offline
Site Moderator

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:50 am
Posts: 1213
Location: San Jose, CA
It's a handy reference chart that basically be used as a "lookup table" to determine your RAV4's approximate driving range based on a constant speed (less accurate) in MPH, or your driving efficiency (more accurate) in "average" miles/kWH. A constant MPH does not factor in elevation changes and traffic conditions, nor battery temperature; all of which affects miles driven per kWh of battery capacity used. While driving AVERAGE efficiency will continuously vary as well depending on the same conditions. So, neither of these can precisely predict driving range, nor are all RAV4 batteries characteristically the same even under identical environmental conditions.

There are many different variable that go into the predicted results, so it is important to realize the miles given in the chart are merely "estimations", and of course, as always, YMMV.

The chart also tells you other things like "useable" battery capacity on a normalized scale, to achieve any given driving range after a full charge, whether in standard charging mode or extended, and how many corresponding segments on the GoM relate to each estimated range value on the chart.

A practical use of the chart is most easily derived from you AVERAGE driving efficiency as reported by the car itself. Find the closest miles/kWH value across the top of the chart, and where that column intersects with the number of segments on your GoM, is the estimated number of miles you can drive your RAV4 EV to the point of absolute lowest level of allowable battery depletion, called the "turtle mode".

You may have to interpolate for your actual average driving efficiency, e.g. "3.2 mi/kWh is between 3.3 and 3.0, so at your maximum battery capacity after a standard charge (34kWh), the interpolated value for the resulting driving range, would be ~109 miles. The same result can be calculated by multiplying 3.2mi/kWh * 34kWh, which equals ~109 miles.

Essentially, the chart does this multiplication for you to compute the resulting miles you can drive your RAV4 EV ,"IF" your average remains fairly constant, which may be easier to maintain at a constant driving speed.

The RAV4 EV's maximum battery capacity "by design" (greater than what Toyota calls, "usable" capacity) is assumed to be 50kWh. 41.8kWh is generally accepted as the USABLE capacity after an extended charge, and 35kWh after a standard charge, so the chart takes into account driving range based on which full charging mode is used.

CAVEAT: You cannot nearly as accurately use this chart to predict driving range after only doing a "PARTIAL" charge!

_________________
Owner of 2012 Classic Silver RAV4 EV, 2012 Silver VOLT & 2008 Red C6 Z06
EMW JuiceBox Basic (fully optioned & customized) EVSE L2 charging station
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550


Last edited by Dsinned on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4113
Location: San Diego
sam wrote:
I dont understand the range chart of RAV4 EV. could you please explain it?


Well, it is a tool to help estimate how far you might drive your Rav4 EV. If you are driving a certain speed (in mph) or economy (in miles/kWh) on level terrain.

Depending on how many fuel bar segments are illuminated (of 16 total), you can get a baseline for how far you can drive.

So, let's say that I've been driving around all day, and I get a call to quickly go someplace 75 miles away. Can I make it? If you only rely on the estimated range on the dash, you have no idea exactly parameters went into making that estimate.

But, with the chart, you could quickly determine at what speed or economy would be needed to drive that 75 miles without recharging and with the existing energy in the battery.

So, let's try the 75 mile example with the Version 1, Draft 2 document. If the car had a "normal charge" (Full on the gauge, with all 16 fuel bar segments illuminated), then I could drive 80mph (the current chart shows 82 miles). Naturally, you always want to leave yourself some reserve energy beyond the 75 miles you actually wanted to drive, and 82 miles does that.

But, let's say that the car only shows 1/2 (half) full on indicator. Follow along the chart to find a range over 75 miles, and that 45 mph or 50 mph (85 and 77 miles range respectively). I don't recommend driving on freeways at those speeds, but assuming that you have a level road, you would get there.

Let's say I'm driving along, and I wasn't paying attention to my energy level, and the Low Battery Warning comes on with only two fuel bar segments remaining and the Navigation says I have 20 miles until I get home. Can I make it home?????

Let me know if you can answer that question. If not, I'll keep trying to explain it.


Image

_________________
Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


Last edited by TonyWilliams on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Range Chart
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4113
Location: San Diego
Dsinned wrote:
CAVEAT: You cannot nearly as accurately use this charge to predict driving range after only doing a "PARTIAL" charge!


Hopefully, those individual fuel bar segments won't be too far off from linear !! The Nissan LEAF is about as goofy as any energy display can be, and we manage!

Fortunately, many of us read the data directly off the CAN bus in the LEAF and display % of remain useable capacity (we call it a Gidmeter). It makes the job very easy.

_________________
Tony Williams
QC Charge
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
tony@QCcharge.com
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787
1-760-798-0342 Office
Hours M-F, 9-5 Pacific Time


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
© Toyota Rav4 EV Forum - part of the MyElectricCarForums.com Group