2013 RAV4 EV For Sale Bad Drive Motor

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mikebergum

New member
Joined
Apr 3, 2024
Messages
1
Location
Fremont Ohio
I have a white 2013 Toyota RAV4EV for sale. Bought it and loved it until the drive unit failed. Too much to afford fixing it.

Was getting about 117 miles range before this happened. I drive conservatively. Couple very small dents from previous owner from some shopping cart mishaps. Tires, brakes, and everything else in really good shape.

Make me an offer, I’m only willing to keep it so long in my driveway before my wife gets sick of it. Located in Fremont Ohio.

Mike
248-787-1957
 
What's the nature of the drive unit failure? Noisy, intermittent faults, or won't move at all?

I don't need any more projects, but could be interested if the price was right. Feel free to PM.
 
What's the nature of the drive unit failure? Noisy, intermittent faults, or won't move at all?

I don't need any more projects, but could be interested if the price was right. Feel free to PM.
What is a good price, I am looking to sell my 2013............ runs fine but may be developing some noise in the transfer case.
 
What is a good price, I am looking to sell my 2013............ runs fine but may be developing some noise in the transfer case.
Noise in the Drive Unit (Tesla: Large Drive Unit, "LDU") usually means it will need to have at least two rotor bearings replaced. This is a $2k to $5k proposition (plus shipping the car, if needed, to a remote facility that can do this repair), depending on whether you do the absolute minimum and some labor yourself, or you get "everything" looked at/checked/resealed. It's become a well-trod path.

Value of a used RAV4 EV? All over the place, but I've been seeing $2k (for undriveable but intact/not wrecked) to $18k for silent and pristine -- that's been the high end, and not common anymore.
 
Okay.............. No Transfer Case, sorry it is the gear box that the motor is attached to that is making a sound. The Car runs fine.
Just wondered if or how long it will go like this (estimate). Not likely anyone can tell me, but thought I would throw it out there. I bought it from someone on this site and never mentioned the noise. I know bought it sight unseen and had it shipped.
I guess can I drive it for awhile or is it just going to go bad for me.
 
I'm willing to wager that you're hearing the oft-discussed bearing failure/coolant ingress. It would sound like a failing gearbox. It's a great sound for an EV to make, if it wasn't for the impending doom. To the best of my understanding, there's no gearbox in the vehicle. I suspect there's some form of differential but I'm not aware of the mechanicals in that respect.

If you can handle a screwdriver and a 10 mm socket wrench and can also lie on the ground and get back up again, it's an easy matter to remove the speed sensor to check for coolant ingress. I had to get help on the "get back up again" part, but it took longer to create this post than it did to check the sensor, and I can type 55 wpm!
 
There is a basic ~9:1 gear reduction between the rotor (the "motor" part) and the differential gear. Other than edge cases (track, abuse) the LDU gears are stout and rarely give issues. The weakest gear are the differential side gears, which some have managed to break, enough to note, but overall the "gearbox" (three gears) don't give any trouble.

The rotor bearings, OTOH . . .

a) The original rotor bearings used conventional steel alloy balls, which became an electrical path from the rotor to the chassis, and became prematurely worn. They became noisy, and eventually allow enough shaft play to trigger a coolant seal failure. I think this affects both rotor bearings. A mechanism that Tesla employed to avoid this problem, an "Aegis Ring" brush setup, did not work as effectively/as robustly as they'd planned. Later Reman LDUs used rotor bearings incorporating non-conductive ceramic balls, and removed the Aegis Ring.

b) The rotor's coolant seal fails. Often. It can allow coolant to dilute the outside rotor bearing's grease, causing failure of that bearing specifically. Many different revisions of this seal/rotor interface have been documented over the years, but the bottom line is that coolant in the rotor cavity eventually ruins the LDU, rendering it un-repairable.

So, if a check of the speed sensor yields a dry sensor, you likely have a repairable LDU.
If it's wet with blue coolant drops, you are running on borrowed time and risk the LDU becoming scrap/for parts only. The rotor can acquire enough rust to prevent it from turning at all, and the coolant can and does migrate to the "other side" of the LDU and fry the power electronics.

A 4-minute video by QC Charge on checking the speed sensor for the presence/absence of coolant

A 12-second video by alflash showing a wet speed sensor, with assembly grease and/or rotor bearing grease debris attached.

screenshot-2024-04-13-at-16-48-36-rav4ev-speed-sensor-check-png.235


The sensor should not have those wet dots (the tan grease may or may not indicate an issue by itself), and if you blot the wet sensor with a paper towel, if there's blue, you have a coolant leak. Trouble.
 

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  • Screenshot 2024-04-13 at 16-48-36 RAV4EV Speed Sensor Check.png
    Screenshot 2024-04-13 at 16-48-36 RAV4EV Speed Sensor Check.png
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I'm willing to wager that you're hearing the oft-discussed bearing failure/coolant ingress. It would sound like a failing gearbox. It's a great sound for an EV to make, if it wasn't for the impending doom. To the best of my understanding, there's no gearbox in the vehicle. I suspect there's some form of differential but I'm not aware of the mechanicals in that respect ...
The main cause of bearing currents in electric motors (and in RAV4EV transmission) is the high frequency common mode voltages generated by the converter. Prolonged discharge currents create grooves that reduce bearing life and can lead to premature motor failure.


One way to suppress the capacitive component of the current is to short-circuit the rotor and the motor housing by means of a sliding contact with a graphite brush (the thickness of one graphite hair is approximately 0.02mm/0.00079 inch)
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/_2041s.jpg
and https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/brush.jpg

Link to topic about brush https://www.myrav4ev.com/threads/milling-noise-fix.2332/page-2#post-29442

The rotor bearings are protected by the use of ceramic balls.
This photo shows one of the bearings removed from the RAV4EV rotor, that had a coolant leak in motor
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/bear_seals_.jpg

RAV4EV Transaxle Assembly
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/trans2.png
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/trans_0230.jpg
 
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... A 12-second video by alflash showing a wet speed sensor, with assembly grease and/or rotor bearing grease debris attached ...
Excuse me for 1/2 offtopic.
Continuation of the history of this vehicle (checking the stator and its condition) and checking after rewinding the stator at




Checking the condition of this vehicle in motion (confirming test-drive) 2 years after repair
.
 
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