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 Post subject: EVs Blamed for California Road Deterioration
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:00 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:57 am
Posts: 91
Location: SF Bay Area, Danville, CA
I could't believe what I was hearing. What is the percent of EV miles driven in Calif?

Here's the story: http://www.capradio.org/articles/2014/1 ... o-crumble/

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 Post subject: Re: EVs Blamed for California Road Deterioration
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:13 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Berkeley, CA
I just read thru the links, and sent a scathing email to Katie Orr, the alleged "journalist" who wrote the piece.

The original report notes that our roadways are deteriorating at an alarming rate due to a number of reasons - primarily many more trucks and busses that greatly exceed the allowable gross vehicle weight on our roads, greatly increased use of trucks for delivery, garbage, recycling and construction, and continued deferred maintainance by choice by local government. It also states that the relative gas tax has remained fixed and as the fuel efficiency of vehicles overall has gone up, that tax per mile driven has gone down substantially, as well as the increase of "alternate fuel vehicles" - without specifically citing electric cars, although it does mention bikes -

It also has information about the requirement to add ADA mandated improvements such as curb cuts and ramps to all roadways, which adds substantial cost to projects, increased environmental requirements such as heavy sweeping to reduce toxic runoff, and the failure of local agencies to learn about current maintainance techniques and the reduced number of qualified contractors to perform the work.

It actually never says (that I can find) anythng that specifically cites electric cars as the source or even a contributor to the problem - although I have to imagine someone from the Koch Bros office probably told the CSAC president and this alleged journalist to reduce the 156 page report to a nice snippet like that -


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 Post subject: Re: EVs Blamed for California Road Deterioration
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:16 am
Posts: 117
Yes, I looked at her web site. Sacramento public radio....that says it all. ANYTHING that takes a cent of tax money away is evil, evil, evil.

The handful of us who go to the trouble of driving cars with limited range that most people won't even consider...potholes are our fault. It's an event when you actually spot another EV on the road, but it's the seed of destruction.

Give me a break, Katie. I understand the government people making these outrageous claims, but you claim to be a journalist. Question their assertions, don't parrot them.


Oh...Ms. Sacramento Public Radio....maybe you should praise EVs because we get to pay utility taxes that are not levied on gasoline?


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 Post subject: Re: EVs Blamed for California Road Deterioration
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm
Posts: 4113
Location: San Diego
Anything that travels on public roads should pay the taxes to maintain those roads. Trucks pay A LOT !!!

Currently, except for Washington state, EV's don't pay road taxes. They should a tax that is equal to the typically gasoline car of similar size, weight and impact to the roadways.

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 Post subject: Re: EVs Blamed for California Road Deterioration
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:18 am
Posts: 208
Location: SoCal
TonyWilliams wrote:
Anything that travels on public roads should pay the taxes to maintain those roads. Trucks pay A LOT !!!

Currently, except for Washington state, EV's don't pay road taxes. They should a tax that is equal to the typically gasoline car of similar size, weight and impact to the roadways.

Petrol cars, do not pay a tax, for the destruction they do to the planet, when they pay their share, I will gladly pay a fair road tax.

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 Post subject: Re: EVs Blamed for California Road Deterioration
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:52 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Lake Stevens Washington
TonyWilliams wrote:
Anything that travels on public roads should pay the taxes to maintain those roads. Trucks pay A LOT !!!

Currently, except for Washington state, EV's don't pay road taxes. They should a tax that is equal to the typically gasoline car of similar size, weight and impact to the roadways.


Yes... I agree. All should pay. The Washington state tax is $100 per yr. added to our annual licensing fee. But oddly, the state EV sales tax exemption giveth, and the state road tax taketh away... and our roads still suck.

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 Post subject: Re: EVs Blamed for California Road Deterioration
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:03 am
Posts: 240
Location: Vancouver, BC
pchilds wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
Anything that travels on public roads should pay the taxes to maintain those roads. Trucks pay A LOT !!!

Currently, except for Washington state, EV's don't pay road taxes. They should a tax that is equal to the typically gasoline car of similar size, weight and impact to the roadways.

Petrol cars, do not pay a tax, for the destruction they do to the planet, when they pay their share, I will gladly pay a fair road tax.

Yes, but a carbon tax will destroy the economy, jobs, and won't somebody please think of the children?!!?!?!?!

Oh wait...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-de ... e19512237/

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 Post subject: Re: EVs Blamed for California Road Deterioration
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:57 am
Posts: 91
Location: SF Bay Area, Danville, CA
Tadol wrote:
It also states that the relative gas tax has remained fixed and as the fuel efficiency of vehicles overall has gone up, that tax per mile driven has gone down substantially, as well as the increase of "alternate fuel vehicles" - without specifically citing electric cars, although it does mention bikes -


I read an article that said the gas tax only covers a percentage of wear and tear on the road caused by motor vehicles while bicycles effectively cause zero wear and tear.

Eventually, we will have to pay a per mile tax as vehicles get away from using so much gasoline/diesel fuel.

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 Post subject: Re: EVs Blamed for California Road Deterioration
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 1828
Location: Los Altos, CA
rickrides wrote:
Eventually, we will have to pay a per mile tax as vehicles get away from using so much gasoline/diesel fuel.
I think the easiest way to do this is to require odometer reporting through existing service channels and basing the per mile road tax on vehicle weight class. For example, most vehicles in California are required to do bi-annual SMOG Check. Adding an odometer reading to the existing electronic report to the state would be trivial. There could also be self-reporting of the reading, but eventually they would catch up with verified 3rd party reading in case the owner fudged the number lower than actual. Of course, telematics on new vehicles could take care of this automatically with quarterly reporting to the state. Anything based on GPS is inherently a bad idea due to the potential for misuse.

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 Post subject: Re: EVs Blamed for California Road Deterioration
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:03 am
Posts: 240
Location: Vancouver, BC
miimura wrote:
Anything based on GPS is inherently a bad idea due to the potential for misuse.

Agreed. The location data is one thing, but it wouldn't be hard to spoof GPS in this application and abuse the system. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/science- ... gps_08-02/

The problem is that if you use odometer readings, then those who drive out of state will be taxed inappropriately. This would be an even bigger issue in places like the Northeast where people routinely drive in other states as a part of their daily activities.

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