California Electric Vehicle Submetering Pilot Program

Wow - lots of pent up anger and frustration around here it looks like -

The data analyzed above a couple pages is mine - I expect the WattBox sub metering program to actually save me a fair bit of money. I like the Wattbox, and the minimal price it cost me was completely insignificant. I hope that my participation will help demonstrate the need to create a responsible utility program that works more closely with individuals and small businesses that are willing to make the investment in solar panels and electric cars not solely because we expect something for free, but because we have a commitment to trying out new approaches that will hopefully pay off for the planet in time. I didn't buy an EV expecting that every possible bug and issue was worked out perfectly - I knew that there were going to be issues with the technology and the hardware and the regulatory agencies involved that would need to be worked out and occasionally very frustrating. But I also knew that the only way to get these issues pushed forward and to prove that this could truly be viable was to accept some risk and be on that cutting edge - knowing that I might get a little cut - but hopefully I am in a better place financially than many others who can't afford a little risk. And I am very happy with the perks I have gotten to be in this cutting edge place - from the now extinct rates I get on my solar panels, to the limited run but pretty darn awesome electric SUV I get to drive every day with its white stickers, the free EVSE the state gave me, and even to trying out special utility rates and new metering technology to help cover those costs that go beyond what I can generate with my panels.

Yes, free is good, and I don't doubt that there have been problems in all this - but I have also connected with some really awesome people who have made this experiment interesting and spiritually very satisfying. Maybe I'll get a JuiceBox someday - maybe not. But EMW seems to be on the same wavelength about all this, and I believe their intentions are good, so I will give them some slack and see what happens. If you need to vent against anti-environment and in-general bad guys, PGE seems to be making a pretty good effort to monopolize that market - with the PUC in a close second -

Tadol, sounds like you're new to the PEV pilot and maybe not reeling from missed deliveries and broken promises. Good for you.

If you really do live in Berkeley, could you tell us what usage pattern saves you money? Unusual to have much AC in Berkeley. Grow lamps 24 hours?

There are 41 peak hours a week on EVA vs 82 off peak. Scratch that, you've got E7, no longer available.

emotorwerks said:

ehelmholtz said:

Did I interpret the above statement right that those who paid $450 for a JuiceBox to get a rebate is now out $450?

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No, this is not correct. There is a small number (less than two dozen) of those that have received an early pilot JuiceBox. eMotorWerks will accept them for a full refund.

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Hoping for instructions on the refund soon. I will definitely continue to email Dorian. Anyone else get a response yet or already returned their JB for a refund? Please provide details on the process.

Thanks,

Yes, I returned my JB long ago. Directly to their office. You might try disputing the CC transaction. That might get some attention.

They should arrange to have your unwanted JB picked up.

dstjohn99 said:

emotorwerks said:

ehelmholtz said:

Did I interpret the above statement right that those who paid $450 for a JuiceBox to get a rebate is now out $450?

Click to expand...

No, this is not correct. There is a small number (less than two dozen) of those that have received an early pilot JuiceBox. eMotorWerks will accept them for a full refund.

Click to expand...

Hoping for instructions on the refund soon. I will definitely continue to email Dorian. Anyone else get a response yet or already returned their JB for a refund? Please provide details on the process.

Thanks,

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Wow, they offered me a refund equal to the value of a refurbished unit, a partial refund of over 50% of it's value. So how does that compare with the statement above that they will accept these units for a full refund? I'll keep you posted...

dstjohn99 said:

Wow, they offered me a refund equal to the value of a refurbished unit, a partial refund of over 50% of it's value. So how does that compare with the statement above that they will accept these units for a full refund? I'll keep you posted...

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What ????????
that is so totally absurd.
Keep us posted please

dstjohn99 said:

Wow, they offeredme a refund equal to the value of a refurbished unit, a partial refund of over 50% of it's value. So how does that compare with the statement above that they will accept these units for a full refund? I'll keep you posted.

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David, very sorry to see this. The refund should be taken care of soon. Please continue the conversation with Dorian. He has been fully looped in and informed.

emotorwerks said:

dstjohn99 said:

Wow, they offeredme a refund equal to the value of a refurbished unit, a partial refund of over 50% of it's value. So how does that compare with the statement above that they will accept these units for a full refund? I'll keep you posted.

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David, very sorry to see this. The refund should be taken care of soon. Please continue the conversation with Dorian. He has been fully looped in and informed.

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So I got an email yesterday to return the unit for a full refund. Thanks EMW, it's the right thing to do.

In one of their few communicados they've said no free JB.
Sorry, there's no basis for your expectations.

B-Bob said:

emotorwerks said:

The following always clearly spelled out on the JuiceBox pilot offer page. Without the pilot incentive payment, eMotorWerks is unable to honor this offer. I hope that this was clear from the start - that the free charging station was contingent on pilot participation.

The effective zero net charging station cost is achieved through an upfront discount, and four rebates, which are due after three months of consecutive use with successful data transmission. All rebates are conditional on utility participation and registration. They will be delivered within 45 days of meeting the eligibility criteria. The total amount of discounts and rebates will amount to the purchase price of a JuiceBox Pro 40.

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When I accepted the Wattbox offer and joined the pilot I was told I would still be eligible for the free Juicebox offer since the pilot supported staggered hardware delivery, once it received the UL listing of course. Since I have enrolled and Emotorwerks is receiving payments from the utility company on my behalf I expect they will honor their agreement as well.

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srl99 said:

Tadol, sounds like you're new to the PEV pilot and maybe not reeling from missed deliveries and broken promises. Good for you.

If you really do live in Berkeley, could you tell us what usage pattern saves you money? Unusual to have much AC in Berkeley. Grow lamps 24 hours?

There are 41 peak hours a week on EVA vs 82 off peak. Scratch that, you've got E7, no longer available.

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I don't have all the numbers yet - I just got an email that I have been accepted into the sub metering program, so in a month(?) or so I should start seeing bills and collecting data. I have a relatively small solar system that was more than adequate before the first RavEV, barely adequate with the first one, and completely inadequate with the second. I am used to being out near the cutting edge of some technologies, and know that things don't always work out as well as you'd hope, but usually work out OK. The WattBox was very cheap, and may solve my problem perfectly. Or it may not. I'll find out, in the next few months. Meanwhile, my wife and I are each driving your EVs, loving them (even with the occasional issues) and promoting them to anyone who asks. When we get our new DC charging with Tonys retrofit, I am also hoping for a flawless experience, but am sure that there may be issues, and will cope as well as possible. Right now the biggest issue is a lack of DC stations in Berkeley (we should get government subsidies to Whole Foods - they are the only option we have) so the cost of the install on 2 EVs probably makes no economic sense whatsoever. But I hope, someday, it does -

Check your PEV pilot bills, and don't be shy about calling your IOU if you suspect any problems - it's the IOUs responsibility to send you correct bills.

My first submeter bill had ?another meter? on it. The first clue was a significant number of peak kWH.

srl99 said:

Check your PEV pilot bills, and don't be shy about calling your IOU if you suspect any problems - it's the IOUs responsibility to send you correct bills.

My first submeter bill had ?another meter? on it. The first clue was a significant number of peak kWH.

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+1. I just got my first SDGE bill for the pilot program. My wattbox usage now shows up on my "regular" bill and is billed on an EV TOU schedule. That looks legitimate. However, my net metering bill shows a 463% increase in usage from last year. An analysis of my meter data as downloaded from SDGE website shows my TOTAL net usage for the last cycle is 26 kWh. However my bill shows total usage of 641 kWh. Also, there is no indication on the net metering bill that the wattbox usage is subtracted from my main meter, nor did I subtract the wattbox usage from my calculations, so my NEM bill should be even lower than 26kWh.

It looks like I get to spend some time on the phone with SDGE.

The product of a bit of interchange w my IOU: there was no actual usage that led to the overbilling in May.
There's no explanation, but they will "correct" the charges.

Oh, and dstjohn - your JB won't be free. Sorry.

srl99 said:

The product of a bit of interchange w my IOU: there was no actual usage that led to the overbilling in May.
There's no explanation, but they will "correct" the charges.

Oh, and dstjohn - your JB won't be free. Sorry.

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I already returned the JB, though it's been two weeks and I have not received a refund from EMW yet. Clearly I'll need to send a 3rd inquiry. They are not very good about communication. Customer service is sometimes great, other times non-existent. A very inconsistent company so far.

I would put in a Paypal refund claim. If you have a receipt/tracking info for the return - Paypal will ultimately refund your purchase. [and you might want to update your signature]

dstjohn99 said:

srl99 said:

The product of a bit of interchange w my IOU: there was no actual usage that led to the overbilling in May.
There's no explanation, but they will "correct" the charges.

Oh, and dstjohn - your JB won't be free. Sorry.

Click to expand...

I already returned the JB, though it's been two weeks and I have not received a refund from EMW yet. Clearly I'll need to send a 3rd inquiry. They are not very good about communication. Customer service is sometimes great, other times non-existent. A very inconsistent company so far.

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Just got this email:

Recently, SCE experienced technical issues that may have caused a delay in processing your monthly August and/or September statements. Therefore, you may not have received these bills, and your daily usage information may not have been available in My Account on SCE.com. When you do receive your statements, you will see charges for the affected bill periods.

We apologize for this delay, and we are working hard to correct this situation to deliver your bill as quickly as possible.

Should you need more time to pay your bill as a result of this matter, you can login to My Account and make a payment arrangement.

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My next bill will be after oct 5th, almost 2 months after I should have received my next bill.

I will be going over it with a magnifying glass

So I received my JB refund this week. Thanks to Dorian and the EMW team for taking care of this. In the end I received 100% refund for my original purchase back in October 2014. Thank you EMW!

dstjohn - does this mean your EMW nightmare is over?

srl99 said:

dstjohn - does this mean your EMW nightmare is over?

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Yes, pretty much done. Still in the PUC trial for now, but I will probably cancel that next month since there are no rebates for participation, the energy is billed outside of my net metering agreement so I have to pay for it, and SDGE messed up my first bill (expected some issues). My net usage was 26kWh for the month, they did not subtract the sub-meter usage, and they billed me for 641kWh. They're looking into it... From other comments this sounds pretty standard.

Once the guy who was running this at EMW (George) disappeared the whole thing went to S*IT . Our winter rates begin Oct 1, and the electric vehicle rate plan is pretty good, so ..sai oh na ra pee ee vee.

Sam