Check EV System warning message

[mhkp]

I just received a call from South Coast Toyota. They said my car is ready to pick up today. I asked what they replaced and he said the Tesla water pump. I asked if they had replaced the ECU Gateway, but he said not that it didn't need it. I get this feeling that they were kind of guessing on what to replace so I think I might have this problem again in the future.

They have another Rav on order for me though and said I can pick up a brand new one on Aug. 9th if I want to. Thinking about it!

This is happening too often. This is a known problem and Toyota should have sent a notice to their Certified EV dealers about a fix (or possible solutions). Or at least how to communicate with affected owners.

As someone who is expecting the SoD on my new car, I'm very interested if we cant just determine one source of contact at Toyota about this and no matter who or what caused the SoD, this one person gets an email and phone call. If Toyota is not going to coordinate a response, we need to force one.

 

[Ampster]

......
This is happening too often. This is a known problem and Toyota should have sent a notice to their Certified EV dealers about a fix (or possible solutions). Or at least how to communicate with affected owners.

As someone who is expecting the SoD on my new car, I'm very interested if we cant just determine one source of contact at Toyota about this and no matter who or what caused the SoD, this one person gets an email and phone call. If Toyota is not going to coordinate a response, we need to force one.

Kevin Spillane at Toyota Corporate contacted me a while ago and I think I remember that he contacted several others. I haven't had the issue often enough for it to be high on my priority list yet. Another name is Sheldon Brown who I think is in Detroit. Someone who was on one of the focus groups might have Sheldon's contact information. PM me if you want Kevin's phone number.

 

[miimura]

This is happening too often. This is a known problem and Toyota should have sent a notice to their Certified EV dealers about a fix (or possible solutions). Or at least how to communicate with affected owners.

As someone who is expecting the SoD on my new car, I'm very interested if we cant just determine one source of contact at Toyota about this and no matter who or what caused the SoD, this one person gets an email and phone call. If Toyota is not going to coordinate a response, we need to force one.

I thought about this too. However, it appears that Toyota's system is set up so that a dealer technician has to open any technical case with Toyota in order to get an issue into the system. If you call Toyota Customer Care like I did, you will find that a person knowledgeable about the RAV4 EV and its various issues will call you back. However, he is a customer service person, not an engineer, but he can coordinate between engineering and your dealership and make sure your issue is properly escalated.

I just wanted to point that out because it sounds like you want to get Toyota to do something without taking your car to a dealer. That's not going to happen. If you're not getting satisfactory service at the dealer, then you should talk to Toyota Customer Service for engineering escalation, etc.

Ampster beat me to it. Kevin is the person I talked to as well. I have his direct number.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I just called Sheldon Brown, executive project manager for RAV4 EV, and left a message. I will either get no response, or "not my job, call customer service", or some guarded information. He is at:

Toyota Technical Center
1555 Woodridge Ave
Ann Arbor, MI 48105

Phone734) 995-2600


Also, I have had many phone calls and emails with Kevin Spillane:

Toyota Customer Service
Long Beach, California
[email protected]

 

[Philly RAV4 EV]

The guy I talked to at Toyota told me the software updates are only for the charging problems.

 

[miimura]

The guy I talked to at Toyota told me the software updates are only for the charging problems.

That is correct, the firmware updates that have been released so far only address charging issues. However, keep in mind that using an incompatible charger can also cause the Check EV System error. There are MANY ways to trigger this error. Like somebody else said on the forum, it's like the check engine light on a normal car. Any time the car finds anything unexpected, it throws up this error.

 

[moderate]

I've had it 2x since the original time. Never had it towed. The things I did to get the car moving:
1) Power-cycled the car many (5-6) times. Some of the times I toggled the charge-now / extended-charge settings.
Eventually it came ready.
2) I had run the car down to about 20 miles, then extended charged 'till full. Car came on with 140 mile range, (not
unreasonable, as I'd been getting up to 135, 137, 138 in previous top-ups), but the Check EV. I turned on the
air, power cycled 1 more time, it came ready
3) I got the Check EV, and it wouldn't go into gear. I power cycled, and threw it into gear while the system check
was still in progress. Got Check EV, but it was in gear. Drove it a short distance, power cycled, and it was gone.

I had another weird thing happen. After charging to full top-up, it powered on OK, then while I was driving the
range dropped from 135 to 19, then SLOWLY went back up to 130 while I drove 5 more miles. Power cycled at
home and all was fine. I suspect I had another analogous failure while driving, but the car kept going.

Still love the car.

On a different note, the VP of Sales and Marketing at Tesla is George Blankenship. He often drops in the Santana
Row Tesla store on Friday nights and just hangs out (I'm guessing to get a feel for how people are receiving the
product). He seems like a very down-to-earth puts his pants on like the rest of us kind of guy. I was at said store
one Friday night and was looking at the cars (was a reservation holder then), ended up talking to him without
knowing who he was. When he left, the sales people all said, "By George." I said, "Who was that?" They said,
"Really? You don't know?" (how the heck would anyone know who he was that didn't work there? its not like
he's W or O or ???) So they told me.

Suggestion: Send George some email, tell him how displeased you are with how the relationship is going, that
you bought the car in part because of Tesla's reputation, but that reputation is being jeopardized in your eyes,
etc. See what you get. My guess is you will get some action. They don't want negative customer feedback just
now with all the positives they've been having.

Worst case, you spend some time tying an email. Best case, stuff starts getting fixed faster with more cooperation.

My $.02.

 

[madcow]

I had 2 more Check EV system warnings yesterday. Once was right after I got an e-mail indicating that the charging system failed and the other time was later in the day after I returned to the parked car. None of my Check EV system warnings prevented me from driving the car, but both times I cycled power on/off 5 or 6 times to clear the error.

I'm probably going to call Toyota tomorrow and see what they say.

Wasn't someone keeping track of how many us us were having this problem, what year their car was, what VIN, what software version, etc? I think we should start something if someone doesn't have it going already.

 

[duggie]

Good idea Madcow. I'd be curious to see if there's a trend.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I just called Sheldon Brown, executive project manager for RAV4 EV, and left a message. I will either get no response, or "not my job, call customer service", or some guarded information. He is at:

Toyota Technical Center
1555 Woodridge Ave
Ann Arbor, MI 48105

Phone734) 995-2600

Sheldon Brown did call me yesterday.

The phone call lasted 34 minutes, and there were a number of issues discussed. It's obvious that he is an engineer and not just a pencil pusher, so the conversation went well. I'm TW and he is SB:


1) TW: They should proactively replace ALL the gateway computers, even if a recall is required. This is the one thing that can leave a driver stranded, and I emphasized that it is number one on my list. SB: no specific recommendation or suggestion.

2) TW: The noisy motors (like the rental at South Coast Toyota in Orange County) should be proactively fixed. They do know the exact problem (and SB explained it to me), so hopefully folks won't rent that car in the future and say, "gosh, these Toyota electric cars sure are noisy compared to LEAF, et al". Also, it will prevent going to dealers and wondering if your car is bad or not. SB did physically drive my car at the dealer before they replaced the motor.

3) TW: Fix the charge timer, particularly the "31st day" issue. That just seems too silly to not get done. Also, the failure after 120 volt charging is now known. They (SB) just hadn't foreseen that scenario (admittedly, rare).

4) SB: The Schneider and Blink/Rema melting parts is known. TW: Since I don't think Toyota has much responsibility with those company's poorly designed and produced parts, I did mention adding thermal protection to the plug (like Honda already does). SB: no specific recommendation or suggestion.

5) SB: The batteries are good to "60C". TW: I told him that is pretty much what Nissan told us with the LEAF, and that hasn't worked out so well. We also talked about the 500w conditioning of the battery in the 20 minute period. Clearly, SB doesn't think those cells need active TMS, but honestly, I would still do whatever you can to keep the cells cool for longest life. TW: Charging the car slowly or leaving it in READY all day on brutal Phoenix afternoons. SB: no specific recommendation or suggestion.

I tried tossing out that the cells were 2900ma, and of course I got the party line "SB: state secret". But, it left me wondering... Since the prototypes used all Roadster 2200ma cells, and that pack weighs 860 pounds, could these still be 2200's ??? Probably, since they're cheaper and the power is greatly limited over the Roadster and Model S. the only way we'll know is to drop the pack, pull one out, and load test it. SB: no specific recommendation or suggestion.

6) TW learned that there was a SB: flaw in the early build Denso 6kW resistance heater that burned out the DC-DC converter. They know the issue. I suggested recalling those. SB: no specific recommendation or suggestion.

7) TW: The 80% limited to the fuel gauge is DUMB. SB said they won't do that again.

8) TW: Offered that I wished Toyota would stay in the EV game, and not go let hydrogen take over their future R&D efforts and compliance efforts. SB: no specific recommendation or suggestion beyond corporate public goals of a "full range of vehicles".

9) SB: You should have XX.XX.62 or greater firmware in your Rav4 EV, and the AV firmware should be updated, too (sorry, didn't remember the number).

There were other things brought up, but overall, I'm impressed. I doubt somebody from GM or Ford in his position would ever call me about car problems.

 

[miimura]

Tony, thanks for this. Could you possibly edit it to be more clear about what is your opinion and what came from Mr. Brown?

 

[Khaihon]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the update on all that info. I think Toyota would do us all a solid if they take care of #1, #2, #3 and #6 immediately. If they choose not to respond, is there a way to make these items fail faster than usual besides just driving/average usage?
I'm pretty sure that I haven't encountered many of these mainly because I haven't really pushed the car (hell, I've never even turned on the heater having bought the car in April). I have encountered a creep up of a noisier motor so that's definitely something troubling, but I'm afraid I will take it in and the service techs will say it is considered "within acceptable usage threshold" until the day after the warranty expires.

Did the motor noise have to do with loose magnetic coil windings by chance?

 

[mnml]

2 weeks in and got the message.

it took me 4 tries to start the car...message said battery was low even though i had 66 miles on the display.

off to the dealer i go, not a happy camper! :x

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tony, thanks for this. Could you possibly edit it to be more clear about what is your opinion and what came from Mr. Brown?

Done.

 

[mhkp]

Did Mr. Brown say the firmware xx.xx.62 is available at all dealers?

 

[mhkp]

Also, the failure after 120 volt charging is now known. They (SB) just hadn't foreseen that scenario (admittedly, rare).

What is the sequence that leads to failure while charging at 120v? Better yet what is the recommendation to avoid the error?

Thanks so much for sharing your conversation with SB.

 

[duggie]

I'm bummed for you! Hope you get it back sooner than later!

 

[madcow]

Tony,

What is the 120V failure that you are referring to? Also, I've read your post several times, and I guess there must be much more that he said that made you feel encouraged that didn't quite make it into words. There were a lot of "no specific recommendation or recommendation". The issue with the fuel gauge is one that could be easily fixed in software. They don't have to not do that again, they could fix it relatively quickly and push it out to people at their next service interval.

I'm just wondering how many people it's going to take to experience these problems before they get serious about helping us. If they've sold 600 so far and there are maybe around 20-40 of us that have been having problems, that's a huge percentage.

Have they even told us how to check what firmware we have? I think maybe 5-10% of the 600 cars sold are out of state so hopefully there will be enough critical mass for us to be officially supported as well. They could mail me the gateway ECU and I'm sure I could replace it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tony,

What is the 120V failure that you are referring to? Also, I've read your post several times, and I guess there must be much more that he said that made you feel encouraged that didn't quite make it into words. There were a lot of "no specific recommendation or recommendation". The issue with the fuel gauge is one that could be easily fixed in software. They don't have to not do that again, they could fix it relatively quickly and push it out to people at their next service interval.

Oh, I don't think they'll change the fuel gauge. No recommendation means just that; SB didn't say, "I promise we will do X, Y, or Z". I added that language because somebody wasn't clear what I said and what he said.

The 120 volt failure is when you charge at 120 volts, THEN plug the car into a 240 volt socket on the timer and the car thinks that it needed to start charging YESTERDAY (or several yesterdays), so it doesn't start at all.

I'm just wondering how many people it's going to take to experience these problems before they get serious about helping us.

Keep in mind, fixing problems after a car ships is REALLY low on any manufacturer's list. They have already been working on future cars for the past almost year. So, I do think they are serious, and will continue to try and fix things. I didn't get the impression that they want us to be sad.

Have they even told us how to check what firmware we have? I think maybe 5-10% of the 600 cars sold are out of state so hopefully there will be enough critical mass for us to be officially supported as well. They could mail me the gateway ECU and I'm sure I could replace it.

The Toyota dealer would have to plug that in their magic box, as far as I know. As to the gateway computer, I'm sure you can replace it, but obviously they would send that to a dealer.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Did Mr. Brown say the firmware xx.xx.62 is available at all dealers?

He didn't mention that, but I would call your dealer and ask.