Clipper Creek TS70 worth it or overkill?

[bruin nut]

I'm a big fan of Clipper Creek chargers. They just always seem to work and they are simple but rugged. I notice that they have a unit that requires a 70 amp circuit, and charges up to to 16 KW. I know this is way more than is needed for the RAV4 EV, but it would essentially "future proof" charging needs, in my view. Plus it is on sale for $1395. That's not cheap, but still barely more than many units with much less capacity.

Here's the link if anyone is interested: http://stores.homestead.com/ClipperCreekInc/-strse-25/Charging-Station--fdsh--TS70/Detail.bok

 

[4EVEREV]

Overkill. Do you actually need more than 6kw? Do you have 70A available to de-rate your panel, that's a big panel .

 

[TonyWilliams]

Overkill. Do you actually need more than 6kw? Do you have 70A available to de-rate your panel, that's a big panel .

You actually need either a 90 or 100 amp breaker for this unit.

 

[4EVEREV]

Overkill. Do you actually need more than 6kw? Do you have 70A available to de-rate your panel, that's a big panel .

You actually need either a 90 or 100 amp breaker for this unit.

Depending on how it is already loaded of course.

 

[n3ckf]

for that prices you can get the Leviton 40A charger (which will charge your Rav4 as fast as it can possibly charge).

Which is about 4 hours for a standard charge (I have one). I go tthe unit becuase i was having solar done, but a 30A charger would be just as effective for me.

 

[miimura]

Overkill. Do you actually need more than 6kw? Do you have 70A available to de-rate your panel, that's a big panel .

You actually need either a 90 or 100 amp breaker for this unit.

Depending on how it is already loaded of course.

The breaker for the EVSE circuit does not depend on anything else. The breaker must be at least 125% of the maximum draw of the EVSE and nothing else can be on that circuit. For the TS70 that's 70A, so the breaker must be 125% of 70 which is 87.5A. That's why Tony said 90 or 100.

 

[4EVEREV]

The point is you can't just drop a 70A load into any panel. Just because one may take out two 20A breakers from a 90A panel and drop in a 70A load does not mean the panel is already at its max capacity. Some panels have high load breakers already. Many people can't even add a 30A to their panel due to existing loads. Sure you can add it to a dedicated 90A panel without question but every installation requires consideration of existing loads.

 

[miimura]

The point is you can't just drop a 70A load into any panel. Just because one may take out two 20A breakers from a 90A panel and drop in a 70A load does not mean the panel is already at its max capacity. Some panels have high load breakers already. Many people can't even add a 30A to their panel due to existing loads. Sure you can add it to a dedicated 90A panel without question but every installation requires consideration of existing loads.

You are absolutely correct, but it was not clear that was the point you were trying to make in your one line post.

 

[cwerdna]

To some of the folks on this thread, including the OP, please get the terminology straight and stop using the words "charger" when you actually mean EVSE. See diagram at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630 and ignore the DC quick charge portion (Rav4 EV doesn't have that).

For L1 and L2 AC charging over J1772, the charger is on-board the car.

Perpetuating the wrong terminology can lead to confusion down the road, wasting money or buying the wrong vehicle, equipment or options/equipment level.

 

[waidy]

IMHO, if the EVSE you are getting is for your Rav4EV, it would be good to get one just to serve 40Amp which is the maximum the current Rav4EV would take. If you were planning for future purchase of EV that would take the maximum of a SAE L2 charge rate, then why not wait until such time when the price for an 80Amp EVSE drops?

 

[waidy]

IMHO, if the EVSE you are getting is for your Rav4EV, it would be good to get one just to serve 40Amp which is the maximum the current Rav4EV would take. If you were planning for future purchase of EV that would take the maximum of a SAE L2 charge rate, then why not wait until such time when the price for an 80Amp EVSE drops?

Oh, my comment is based on the assumption that a 40Amp EVSE is much less expensive than the $1395 70Amp CC. In additions, I would suggest that you wire for 80Amp (i.e. 2awg wires), but use a 50Amp breaker. In the future, when you upgrade to a 80Amp EVSE all you need is to change the breaker and the EVSE.

 

[4EVEREV]

IMHO, if the EVSE you are getting is for your Rav4EV, it would be good to get one just to serve 40Amp which is the maximum the current Rav4EV would take. If you were planning for future purchase of EV that would take the maximum of a SAE L2 charge rate, then why not wait until such time when the price for an 80Amp EVSE drops?

Oh, my comment is based on the assumption that a 40Amp EVSE is much less expensive than the $1395 70Amp CC. In additions, I would suggest that you wire for 80Amp (i.e. 2awg wires), but use a 50Amp breaker. In the future, when you upgrade to a 80Amp EVSE all you need is to change the breaker and the EVSE.

This is always a good idea.

 

[TonyWilliams]

You actually need either a 90 or 100 amp breaker for this unit.

Depending on how it is already loaded of course.

I don't know what this means... the loading is 70 amps CONTINUOUS, which means that the circuit wiring and breaker need to be rated for 70 * 125% = 87.5 amps. Obviously, there aren't 87.5 amp breakers readily available, and not that many 90 amp ones, either. But, 100 amps is common.

The charging station will be the ONLY thing on that circuit, so there won't be additional loads from something else.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The point is you can't just drop a 70A load into any panel. Just because one may take out two 20A breakers from a 90A panel and drop in a 70A load does not mean the panel is already at its max capacity.

Of course. Nor can you just upgrade the panel to 200 amp, or 400 amp, etc, without considering if the transformer out on the street can handle this. And all the wires from the transformer to the house may need upgrading.

The bigger transformer may require bigger wires from its power source, etc, etc, etc, until we have to buy a nuclear power plant to power your EV!

:mrgreen:

 

[miimura]

The point is you can't just drop a 70A load into any panel. Just because one may take out two 20A breakers from a 90A panel and drop in a 70A load does not mean the panel is already at its max capacity.

Of course. Nor can you just upgrade the panel to 200 amp, or 400 amp, etc, without considering if the transformer out on the street can handle this. And all the wires from the transformer to the house may need upgrading.

The bigger transformer may require bigger wires from its power source, etc, etc, etc, until we have to buy a nuclear power plant to power your EV!

:mrgreen:

In PG&E Territory, you can get a permit and pay an electrician to upgrade your panel. In that process, you notify PG&E that you want to upgrade your service. They will charge you to upgrade the line from your meter to the "pole" but there are discounts (subsidies) available when the upgrade is for EV charging. If PG&E determines that a transformer upgrade or anything else upstream needs upgrading, you are not responsible for that cost. These policies differ by state and utility.

 

[waidy]

In PG&E Territory, you can get a permit and pay an electrician to upgrade your panel. In that process, you notify PG&E that you want to upgrade your service. They will charge you to upgrade the line from your meter to the "pole" but there are discounts (subsidies) available when the upgrade is for EV charging. If PG&E determines that a transformer upgrade or anything else upstream needs upgrading, you are not responsible for that cost. These policies differ by state and utility.

According to my email exchange with PG&E Electric Vehicle (PEV) program Principal Project Manager, Ulric Kwan, Customer Energy Solutions, Emerging Markets and Technologies, 245 Market Street, Room 380B, Mail Code N3F, San Francisco, CA 94105, 415-973-6686 (Office), 415-264-8539 (Mobile), [email protected] (E-mail)

All upgrade costs on PG&E's side of the meter are covered automatically, so long as you notify us that you have an EV and where you live. PG&E will come and do an inspection and make any upgrades required on our side of the meter.

His message implies any cost from the meter (not including the meter) to the grid are paid by PG&E.

 

[miimura]

All upgrade costs on PG&E's side of the meter are covered automatically, so long as you notify us that you have an EV and where you live. PG&E will come and do an inspection and make any upgrades required on our side of the meter.

His message implies any cost from the meter (not including the meter) to the grid are paid by PG&E.

Even better. They are making a special case for EV upgrades and covering the upgrade cost between the meter and the pole that you would normally have to pay for. What I described is the normal policy.