EV+PV - Who Has It?
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waidy
Well-known member
Ummm, it doesn't say what kind of panel and inverter, especially the efficiency of such. If the majority of the savings are in the materials by using a less efficiency of panel and inverter, then this is not really a good deal for the consumer. It would be nice if they post the kind of panel and inverter that goes on sales.Dsinned said:
miimura
Well-known member
While I agree that the efficiency of the inverter is very important, you can give up some panel efficiency without much penalty. What I mean is that a very efficient panel will have a high output per unit area, while a panel with lower efficiency will have lower output per unit area. If you are not space constrained on your roof, you can usually get a much lower $/watt with lower efficiency panels. It will just take more area to get the desired output. It's not really this simple because there is some interaction between the panels and inverters that can affect your total system cost, but I think my point stands.
Has anybody done a self install system? We have been getting bids and everybody is $6.00/watt and up for a 5-6Kw system. I have seen where the panels with Enphase micro-inverters (we have shading issues) can be purchased for around $1.65-1.75/watt. I have a good friend who is a licensed electrical contractor that will help me through the permitting process, a experienced roofer who will help with the tile roof issues and a nephew who is general contractor for other issues that will most likely surface. I am currently waiting to here back from the city with regard from this.
I'm one who understands the word profit but there is no way we can afford $25-30K (or more) right now for a professionally installed system. Am I crazy to be thinking along these lines?
I'm one who understands the word profit but there is no way we can afford $25-30K (or more) right now for a professionally installed system. Am I crazy to be thinking along these lines?
Dsinned
Well-known member
Well, it is a "warehouse" sale, which possibly implies they are trying to sell discontinued solar systems and/or components. When I bought my system from Petersen Dean a couple months ago, I got all Canadian Solar panels (250W each) and M215 Enphase microinverters. All were top quality with 25 year warranties. Remember, the price includes INSTALLATION, as well as required permitting.
I'm not sure where their "warehouse" is located, probably somewhere in the SF East Bay (Newark?). If interested, just go look and judge for yourself, or call and simply ask what specific solar systems and/or equipment is being sold.
Also, they will be advertising this sale on Channel 4 (KRON) TV this coming Saturday at 10:30am. However, I wouldn't wait to find out, as it could be one of those "first come, first served" type of sales, "with supplies limited to quantities on hand, no rainchecks".
I'm not sure where their "warehouse" is located, probably somewhere in the SF East Bay (Newark?). If interested, just go look and judge for yourself, or call and simply ask what specific solar systems and/or equipment is being sold.
Also, they will be advertising this sale on Channel 4 (KRON) TV this coming Saturday at 10:30am. However, I wouldn't wait to find out, as it could be one of those "first come, first served" type of sales, "with supplies limited to quantities on hand, no rainchecks".
AvLegends said:
I don't know what the lease deals look like right now, but we had a 15.4kW Sunpower system installed for around $18K. We paid the lease up-front, and at year 7 we can purchase the system outright for $2K or leave it up through year 20 and let them continue to handle the maintenance. There's no way we could have touched the price of this system by buying it outright. I'm probably leaving it as a lease, since that works out to only $900/yr for the power needs of our entire house and both cars. I would imagine the systems in 20 years will be a fair bit better, plus I don't want to pay the cost of replacing two string inverters in 10 years.
Good luck with your decision.
Thanks! That sounds more like what we are looking for. REC the other day quoted me around the same $18K for a 6kw lease system or around $160/month lease for the next 20 years. No early buyout. We are currently paying SCE $148/mo on a level pay plan and this lease would be $12.00/month more and reduce the bill to $29.00/month. Don't want to go negative from what we are paying now. We are in a "Gold Medallion" all electric home with no gas whatsoever. Solar makes sense in so many ways especially with the new Rav.jspearman said:
Could I ask who did your install?
robertk925
Member
Just a heads up, I got a quote from PetersenDean a few weeks ago and the prices on the website for their PowerSaver series definitely do not include Enphase microinverters or monitoring. I was a little bit confused by this since I saw that Dsinned had Enphase microinverters and monitoring on his install, but I assume he paid extra for them?
My salesman told me that they typically don't recommend microinverters since they were such a "new" technology, and definitely not for small systems like mine (3-4kW). Since the other 4 companies that I got quotes from had no issues with recommending Enphase for my system, I assume he may not know what he is talking about.
My salesman told me that they typically don't recommend microinverters since they were such a "new" technology, and definitely not for small systems like mine (3-4kW). Since the other 4 companies that I got quotes from had no issues with recommending Enphase for my system, I assume he may not know what he is talking about.
Spiffster
Active member
robertk925 said:
Let me tell you from personal experience... GET THE MICROINVERTERS!! That salesman guy is full of shit. The Enphase microinverters allow for much more flexible installs and they carry a 25 year warranty, where the string inverters go up to 10 and will crap out soon after. String inverters are old hat... amazing how long these a-holes are trying to say that micro-interters are "new and untested technology". That is a complete load of crap!
waidy
Well-known member
Hi robertk925, I second Spiffster.Spiffster said:
robertk925
Member
Spiffster said:
Agreed, my preference is definitely to use microinverters for the flexibility, per panel monitoring, and greater efficiency.
AvLegends said:
The company I used was a local Phoenix outfit, but the lease deal was done through Sunpower itself, so the company doesn't matter as much. Just go to Sunpower.com and look for a dealer. We used one of their premier dealers who only install their panels. It's worth getting a quote to see what they can do for you.
We went with Sunpower panels because they seem to be best for our kind of heat, which is intense and long-lasting. It's also the reason we went with string inverters instead of microinverters, since microinverters would be cooking on the roof for 14 hours a day at oven-like temps. I've seen some Enphase installs here, but we don't have significant shading issues and it wasn't worth the risk and extra cost. We will have produced around 26 MWh of electricity in the first year, so I'm happy with the setup we have.
AvLegends said:
I seriously considered a self-install and had done practically all the leg work from design, specifying components (racking, PV, inverter, standoffs, misc.), sourcing, understanding the permitting process form the city and utility company, and physical installing steps. All in the name of maximizing ROI. With my ‘free’ labor donation, I was estimating I could do the system for somewhere under $3 before federal rebate. The reality is, my time is not really free, and the labor required is not trivial. The labor on a professional install is tax deductible and they can source parts at a deeper discount than I could even from wholesalers (don’t forget the many misc parts that don’t come with most kits). When you consider the solar opportunity lost due to the extended time it would take to install... Definitely negotiate and get competitive bids between installers. Ask for their backlog of installs, as some have a surprising long backlog. And ask if they subcontract the install work.
I was very surprised at the pricing I was ultimately able to get for an installed system. It was easily competitive with the pricing I could get for doing the work myself in the end. I would wholly recommend my installer again (Harry with Milholland Electric) if you’re looking for a solid bid to work from.
Dsinned
Well-known member
My advice to anyone interested . . . call Paul Beckman (510-774-0754, or email him at [email protected]). Paul is the salesman I worked with up here in the SF Bay Area, who sold me my system back in late December. I simply asked Paul if I could get Enphase micros and he said "yes", then he wrote that in on my sales contract. I did NOT pay extra, AND I still got my PowerSaver system at the website advertised price!
***UPDATE***
Petersen Dean just had a "warehouse sale" Saturday, April 13th, which was shown on local TV. They were selling complete systems at the price of only 2.99/watt INSTALLED, 25% lower than their Power Saver Series advertised prices. However, the systems for sale in the "warehouse" did not include Enphase microinverters, but German made Fronius string inverters. Still, this was about the lowest advertised price I've seen for a complete rooftop solar system FULLY INSTALLED!!!
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However, even though PD also sells "monitoring systems", it is not their "bread and butter" product, so I opted to buy my Enphase monitoring device (called the "Envoy") separately, from an online retailer (Amazon). It was a lot cheaper that way and the monitoring capability is really a "DIY" kind of thing that does not require a solar system installer, provided you know enough about the Internet to know what you are doing.
I do agree that regardless of which solar system floats your boat, a monitoring system to go with it, is absolutely essential, ESPECIALLY with a microinverter based system!
Here's the public view of my system, https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/pv/public_systems/TRVh161550 , including a detailed description and several pictures of my rooftop array.
After only about two months, and thanks to nice sunny weather lately, it has already generated 900kWh, enough power to have fully recharged my RAV4 EV about 25 times over! On top of that, my PG&E "NEM" Smartmeter is now showing a net consumption of (-)10kWh, actually, "99990", since my solar system was officially "connected" to the grid.
I couldn't be any more pleased with the quality of my system and work Petersen Dean did to install it!!! :mrgreen:
***UPDATE***
Petersen Dean just had a "warehouse sale" Saturday, April 13th, which was shown on local TV. They were selling complete systems at the price of only 2.99/watt INSTALLED, 25% lower than their Power Saver Series advertised prices. However, the systems for sale in the "warehouse" did not include Enphase microinverters, but German made Fronius string inverters. Still, this was about the lowest advertised price I've seen for a complete rooftop solar system FULLY INSTALLED!!!
*******************************************************************
However, even though PD also sells "monitoring systems", it is not their "bread and butter" product, so I opted to buy my Enphase monitoring device (called the "Envoy") separately, from an online retailer (Amazon). It was a lot cheaper that way and the monitoring capability is really a "DIY" kind of thing that does not require a solar system installer, provided you know enough about the Internet to know what you are doing.
I do agree that regardless of which solar system floats your boat, a monitoring system to go with it, is absolutely essential, ESPECIALLY with a microinverter based system!
Here's the public view of my system, https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/pv/public_systems/TRVh161550 , including a detailed description and several pictures of my rooftop array.
After only about two months, and thanks to nice sunny weather lately, it has already generated 900kWh, enough power to have fully recharged my RAV4 EV about 25 times over! On top of that, my PG&E "NEM" Smartmeter is now showing a net consumption of (-)10kWh, actually, "99990", since my solar system was officially "connected" to the grid.
I couldn't be any more pleased with the quality of my system and work Petersen Dean did to install it!!! :mrgreen:
robertk925 said:
I got that line from a couple venders myself initially until it was clear to them from further discussion that I had a solid technical grasp of the tradeoffs and they were blowing smoke.
It’s important to note that string inverters WILL need to be replaced in 10-15 yrs, which reduced the perceived initial cost advantages. Beyond that, I did not want a noisy, hot, eyesore sticking out from the side of my house calling attention to itself, nor the unsightly conduit runs for high voltage DC.
My system is completely hidden in terms of conduit and componetry outside of the PV panels on my roof which was an important factor for me. All you see at the breaker box is a little additional warning label that it is back fed with solar power.
waidy
Well-known member
My 1st phase installation in 2004/2005 was done by Sunlight and Power (There weren't much to choose from at that time. I think there were 3 only at that time in my area). My 2nd phase installation was done by RealGoods Solar. Both were really good and professional, allow owner participationjspearman said:
Thank you all! Great advise to go shopping with.
Just got a call from the PetersonDean estimator asking why I specified microinverters... I told him shade issues... I said the homeowner (girlfriend), when ask if her palm tree could be cut down... without hesitation she said "well NO SOLAR then" Not negotiable. She is the boss, even with me paying for it!
Just got a call from the PetersonDean estimator asking why I specified microinverters... I told him shade issues... I said the homeowner (girlfriend), when ask if her palm tree could be cut down... without hesitation she said "well NO SOLAR then"
Not negotiable. She is the boss, even with me paying for it! Dsinned
Well-known member
Just stick to your guns and hopefully, you'll be able to get a "high tech" Enphase based system at a truly incredible price! :mrgreen:
