Open Source CHAdeMO charger 100-150kW

[miimura]

The conductor geometry of CHAdeMO connector is designed to allow for 200A, which means it can almost double its power level to adapt to the market environment as necessary.

http://www.chademo.com/wp/technology/optimal/

If this is true and the existing pin geometry in today's CHAdeMO can safely handle 200A, then I would say that it's not worth the effort to push up to 300A. A 100kW cabinet and up to 70kW going into a RAV4 EV with the rest available to a second vehicle is pretty awesome already.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The conductor geometry of CHAdeMO connector is designed to allow for 200A, which means it can almost double its power level to adapt to the market environment as necessary.

http://www.chademo.com/wp/technology/optimal/

If this is true and the existing pin geometry in today's CHAdeMO can safely handle 200A, then I would say that it's not worth the effort to push up to 300A. A 100kW cabinet and up to 70kW going into a RAV4 EV with the rest available to a second vehicle is pretty awesome already.

Yes, it is. Unless you're building your own plug... then it doesn't matter if it is 200 or 300 amps, as the cost will be the same. Sadly, the only logical way to have reasonably priced plugs (plus replacements) is probably to build our own.

That applies to the inlet, also.

So, the maximum charge on our Rav4 EV with the current battery of 48kWh-ish at CHAdeMO maximum 125 amps:


***************************

>1C max charge rate, 44kW, 125 amp maximum

20% SOC (300 volts * 125 amps = 37.5kW)
50% SOC (340 volts * 125 amps = 42.5kW)
96% SOC (382 volts * 20 amps = 7.6kW)

***************************

1.42C max charge rate, 68kW, 200 amp maximum

20% SOC (300 volts * 200 amps = 60kW)
50% SOC (340 volts * 200 amps = 68kW)
96% SOC (382 volts * 20 amps = 7.6kW)

***************************

1.5C max charge rate, 72kW, 240 amp maximum

20% SOC (300 volts * 240 amps = 72kW)
50% SOC (340 volts * 211 amps = 72kW)
96% SOC (382 volts * 20 amps = 7.6kW)

*******************************

1.6667C max charge rate, 80kW, 267 amp maximum

20% SOC (300 volts * 267 amps = 80kW)
50% SOC (340 volts * 235 amps = 80kW)
96% SOC (382 volts * 20 amps = 7.6kW)

 

[miimura]

The conductor geometry of CHAdeMO connector is designed to allow for 200A, which means it can almost double its power level to adapt to the market environment as necessary.

http://www.chademo.com/wp/technology/optimal/

If this is true and the existing pin geometry in today's CHAdeMO can safely handle 200A, then I would say that it's not worth the effort to push up to 300A. A 100kW cabinet and up to 70kW going into a RAV4 EV with the rest available to a second vehicle is pretty awesome already.

Yes, it is. Unless you're building your own plug... then it doesn't matter if it is 200 or 300 amps, as the cost will be the same. Sadly, the only logical way to have reasonably priced plugs (plus replacements) is probably to build our own.

That applies to the inlet, also.

The basic question is how much will it cost to "make your own plugs"? Will you have to make the whole handle or just the pins and overmold around the pins, re-using the rest of the handle from a commercial vendor? There's not much to the inlet besides the pins and the injection molding around them. It would be very easy for an existing manufacturer to do this, but I don't expect any of the existing Japanese manufacturers to be helpful or even responsive. I could be wrong...

Also, regarding construction of the charger itself - is it even worthwhile to talk to an "underdog" vendor like Delta to see if they are willing to make a charger on a non-exclusive basis that will meet these requirements? Eventually the public EV infrastructure needs to move to a model where more than one car can charge at each location. This would position them well for that eventuality. I suppose it's a question of vision on their part.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The basic question is how much will it cost to "make your own plugs"? Will you have to make the whole handle or just the pins and overmold around the pins, re-using the rest of the handle from a commercial vendor? There's not much to the inlet besides the pins and the injection molding around them. It would be very easy for an existing manufacturer to do this, but I don't expect any of the existing Japanese manufacturers to be helpful or even responsive. I could be wrong...

Also, regarding construction of the charger itself - is it even worthwhile to talk to an "underdog" vendor like Delta to see if they are willing to make a charger on a non-exclusive basis that will meet these requirements? Eventually the public EV infrastructure needs to move to a model where more than one car can charge at each location. This would position them well for that eventuality. I suppose it's a question of vision on their part.

Nobody is going to have the product I envision, and if they had to develop it, it would cost a fortune. The industry is at 125 amps, period. It's also thousands of dollars per plug.

How much to make the plugs? $20k for molds. Actual parts, $100, plus cable. I would NOT use electronic solenoids to operate locking pins... that would be a simple lever (like aircraft pressure refueling) with a simple microswitch. It's a simple, easy to access dimensions and specification part. Nothing exotic. No surprises.

 

[miimura]

The basic question is how much will it cost to "make your own plugs"? Will you have to make the whole handle or just the pins and overmold around the pins, re-using the rest of the handle from a commercial vendor? There's not much to the inlet besides the pins and the injection molding around them. It would be very easy for an existing manufacturer to do this, but I don't expect any of the existing Japanese manufacturers to be helpful or even responsive. I could be wrong...

Also, regarding construction of the charger itself - is it even worthwhile to talk to an "underdog" vendor like Delta to see if they are willing to make a charger on a non-exclusive basis that will meet these requirements? Eventually the public EV infrastructure needs to move to a model where more than one car can charge at each location. This would position them well for that eventuality. I suppose it's a question of vision on their part.

Nobody is going to have the product I envision, and if they had to develop it, it would cost a fortune. The industry is at 125 amps, period. It's also thousands of dollars per plug.

I assume you're talking about the whole charger here. You're probably right that nobody in the support industries making DCFC chargers and plugs is going to deviate from 125A until a major automaker starts seriously chasing Tesla and needs to increase charging power. If there's no automaker push, there's no reason for them to do anything new. Sad but true.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I edited the charge power above, and am reposting here:



So, the maximum charge on our Rav4 EV with the current battery of 48kWh-ish at CHAdeMO maximum 125 amps:


***************************

>1C max charge rate, 44kW, 125 amp maximum

20% SOC (300 volts * 125 amps = 37.5kW)
50% SOC (340 volts * 125 amps = 42.5kW)
96% SOC (382 volts * 20 amps = 7.6kW)

***************************

1.42C max charge rate, 68kW, 200 amp maximum

20% SOC (300 volts * 200 amps = 60kW)
50% SOC (340 volts * 200 amps = 68kW)
96% SOC (382 volts * 20 amps = 7.6kW)

***************************

1.5C max charge rate, 72kW, 240 amp maximum

20% SOC (300 volts * 240 amps = 72kW)
50% SOC (340 volts * 211 amps = 72kW)
96% SOC (382 volts * 20 amps = 7.6kW)

*******************************

1.6667C max charge rate, 80kW, 267 amp maximum

20% SOC (300 volts * 267 amps = 80kW)
50% SOC (340 volts * 235 amps = 80kW)
96% SOC (382 volts * 20 amps = 7.6kW)

 

[miimura]

Tony - I saw that you linked to the Marubeni Signet Products Page in the Kia Soul EV Range Autonomy story at InsideEVs. Do you get the feeling that their 100kW charger built from 20kW modules is a real and mature product? Do you think it is applicable to the goals put forth in this thread?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tony - I saw that you linked to the Marubeni Signet Products Page in the Kia Soul EV Range Autonomy story at InsideEVs. Do you get the feeling that their 100kW charger built from 20kW modules is a real and mature product? Do you think it is applicable to the goals put forth in this thread?

I like the concept. It would come down to cost, and I doubt anybody can beat price wise what we can build.