30 Amp or 40 Amp EVSE?

[kiwiguy]

While waiting for my electrician to let me know how big a circuit I can install, I'm wondering if 40 Amp charging is that much more useful than 30 Amp? I'm looking at the ClipperCreek units, either HCS-40 (30A) or HCS-60 (for 40A) at about $600 and $900 respectively.

I'm on solar and have a fairly large off peak window (9pm to 10am M-F), so overnight charging shouldn't be an issue. I have no idea how often I might want to charge quickly during the day.

Any thoughts or real life experiences? There is the idea of future proofing with a higher power unit, but prices are also dropping.

 

[smkettner]

I have a 30a at home and it will always charge in six hours or less so you are fine for overnight.
I think it charges about 20 miles per hour for day use. I assume the 40 is 33% faster if that matters.

This morning to get a normal charge it took from 12:03a to 5:08a to charge from 2 bars and 18 miles showing.

 

[rav4buyer]

30amp is fast enough. My car charges in less than 5 hours from 0 to full on a 30 amp EVSE. Charging during the day is rare and even when you need to you won't need a full charge. Save your money.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I have a 30a at home and it will always charge in six hours or less so you are fine for overnight.
I think it charges about 20 miles per hour for day use. I assume the 40 is 33% faster if that matters.

Miles Gained per Hour Charging @ 87.5% charger efficiency
70F Ambient temperature - hotter or colder will decrease miles gained

--------------------------------------- 2.7 miles/kWh - 3.4 miles/kWh
------------ Amps/Volts -- Where ------ City Drive ----- 65mph

NEMA 5-15 - 12 / 120 ------- Any ------ 2.8 miles ------ 3.5 miles (North American wall socket)
NEMA 5-20 - 16 / 120 ------ Motels ---- 3.8 miles ------ 4.7 miles (motel air conditioners)
NEMA 10-30- 24 / 240 ------ Home ---- 13.6 miles ----- 17.7 miles (old style dryer outlet)
NEMA 14-30- 24 / 240 ------ Home ---- 13.6 miles ----- 17.7 miles (new style dryer outlet)
J1772 ------- 30 / 208 ------ Public ---- 14.8 miles ----- 18.7 miles (typical public J1772)
J1772 ------- 30 / 240 ------ Home ---- 17.1 miles ----- 21.6 miles (rare 240 volt public J1772)
NEMA 6-50 -- 40 / 240 ------ Home ---- 22.7 miles ----- 28.5 miles (welder outlet)
NEMA 14-50- 40 / 240 ------ Home ---- 22.7 miles ----- 28.5 miles (RV park "50 amp service")

 

[TonyWilliams]

While waiting for my electrician to let me know how big a circuit I can install, I'm wondering if 40 Amp charging is that much more useful than 30 Amp? I'm looking at the ClipperCreek units, either HCS-40 (30A) or HCS-60 (for 40A) at about $600 and $900 respectively.

I'm on solar and have a fairly large off peak window (9pm to 10am M-F), so overnight charging shouldn't be an issue. I have no idea how often I might want to charge quickly during the day.

Any thoughts or real life experiences? There is the idea of future proofing with a higher power unit, but prices are also dropping.

I would put in a 50 amp circuit (for a 40 amp continuous load), whether you use a smaller charge station or not.

 

[DevinL]

I would put in a 50 amp circuit (for a 40 amp continuous load), whether you use a smaller charge station or not.

+1. You'll be happy you did later on. This won't be the last EV you ever buy. For us, I had a 40A and 20A circuit installed when I got my LEAF 3 years ago. I thought I was future-proofed, but now with the RAV4 EV and FFEV I wish I'd installed at least a 50A and 30A breaker, or ideally 2x50A.

 

[Blastphemy]

+1. I got the Toyota-recommended Leviton 40-amp, and I'm glad I did. Especially on those days when I don't have quite enough time to charge in between trips, it's worth the extra few electrons.

 

[Dsinned]

I've been charging from a Leviton 32A L2 EVSE tied to a 40A breaker, and frankly while charging overnight at the lowest PG&E rate, my RAV4 is ALWAYS completely charged by the next morning. I think even an extended charge of a fully depleted battery should not take more than about 7 hours tops. If you can save substantially by going with a 30 or 32A EVSE, that might be the best choice. But, if its only a couple hundred more bucks for a dedicate 50A outlet, I agree that it would be worth it to upgrade.

 

[TonyWilliams]

+1. I got the Toyota-recommended Leviton 40-amp, and I'm glad I did. Especially on those days when I don't have quite enough time to charge in between trips, it's worth the extra few electrons.

The price difference between a 40 amp circuit and a 50 amp circuit is so small that it's almost silly not to do.

There are several 40 amp charger cables out there now, including a portable one ;-) you don't have to buy the overpriced Toyota stuff.

 

[ekcanzano]

I have the 40A Leviton and I am really glad I have it.

Normally, I don't really care if it takes 4 hours vs. 5-5.5 hours to charge. But every once in a while, I will come home and want to top off before a I depart on another errand. I love that I can quickly top off and get back on the road will a FULLY charged battery (I am a belt and suspenders kinda guy). I don't like to get close to worrying about running low on range. I find range anxiety real when I get down to less than 15 miles of range, even if I know I can make it--I just don't need the stress.

The 40A Leviton just isn't that much more money. Why not add charge at the 9.6kW rate vs. 7.2kW rate? For me, the piece of mind on those times when I want to top off and run, is TOTALLY worth the few extra dollars. We paid a premium for a high-end BEV, why not do the same for a truly great EVSE.

I absolutely agree with Tony that the wiring costs are minimal to go with a 50A circuit to protect the 40A EVSE. I oversized my wiring to get even less voltage drop than the code allows.

One other factor that affects my decision is that I am not on Time of Use (TOU). I am on the tiered rate system because I generate my electricity with my solar than I consume each year. This gives me the freedom to charge at anytime without needing to wait until midnight for cost reasons.

Good luck to you.

 

[TonyWilliams]

My Time Of Use (TOU) for my separate EV meter (my house is on solar) is only 5 hours,from midnight to 5am.

Charging at less than 40 amps costs me real money.

And again, there is more than one choice for 40 amp charge stations.

 

[kiwiguy]

Still working on getting the 240V circuit installed, might be another week or two...
(I'm thinking of temporarily hooking up an EVSE to a spare 50 amp circuit that is wired to where there used to be a spa pool)

Two questions I'm curious about:

1) Who has gone the longest with using only the supplied 120V trickle charger (it's painfully slow)? The wife was excited to charge at the mall today at 6.6kW!

2) Who is using only a Jesla as their primary day-to-day charger?

Thanks again for all the great advice!

 

[Dsinned]

The OEM charging cord is indeed waaay too painfully slow! I think I only tested it once after getting the car just to make sure it works in case of emergency. IMHO, there is no way anyone will be satisfied using that unit for regular charging purposes. It is the same to me as having a can of fix-a-flat instead of a spare tire; hardly ever needed, but a jack and a spare tire are usually much better options. A "portable" EVSE with a 25' long output cord that support both L1 and L2, up to 40 amps, with the appropriate input plug adaptor, and an easy to adjust the current limit, is really your best option. There are EVSEs that meet that criteria from about $500 to $1000, including a JESLA at the high end. Any of which are well worth the added cost so that they can save you countless hours of "waiting" for a recharge in the long run.

 

[smkettner]

I would guess the OEM cord is good for 35 miles per day average.

 

[TonyWilliams]

2) Who is using only a Jesla as their primary day-to-day charger?

Thanks again for all the great advice!

We do have customers who use their JESLA daily. I don't really have a sense as to what percentage do.

 

[Khaihon]

I was charging on the OEM 120v EVSE daily for about 8 months. very painfully slow but managed just fine. if i needed extra range, i would just drive down to the mall a couple miles away, charge up on the chargepoint while watching a movie or taking a walk at hermosa beach while charging on their free public chargers.

 

[jimbo69ny]

I was charging on the OEM 120v EVSE daily for about 8 months. very painfully slow but managed just fine. if i needed extra range, i would just drive down to the mall a couple miles away, charge up on the chargepoint while watching a movie or taking a walk at hermosa beach while charging on their free public chargers.

I wish we had options like that in central ny (including the beach)

 

[kiwiguy]

OK - 8 months is an impressively long time to go with only L1 charging!
I guess it would work if you only go less than 30 miles a day (3 miles/hr charge rate).

Today said 30 hours to charge, but the L2 should be in tomorrow - yeah!

 

[rickrides]

I use only my Jesla plugged into my 50a outlet in my garage. I can take it with me if I'm going out of range. No need to buy more than one EVSE.

My ev project Blink hangs on the wall unplugged. I guess I should sell it.