Charger Advice

[Richard C.]

@Seattle, Did Leviton give you any kind of time frame for delivery? They didn't for me, so I'm only HOPING it comes within a week.

I expect we are indeed on the same truck ... very cool. And since it's coming north, I'll get mine first! Ha ha, sorry ... couldn't help myself. Mine is silver - I'll be sure to leave a friendly note on the white one.

 

[SeattleRav4]

They have not yet. I expect it has not yet shipped out.
I did notice that while Home Depot is still showing the old style 30A units, Leviton is selling the new style. The website still shows the higher price on the new style 30A units.

 

[TeCKis300]

I got email confirmation of my unit being shipped out with a UPS tracking number showing that it is coming out of Texas. ETA for delivery is this coming Monday. Now if only my rate schedule will change to TOU faster!#@$ That won't be until Feb.

 

[SeattleRav4]

For those with range anxiety, especially on the Toyota included 110v charger, I plugged my new RAV4 EV into 110V last night with 15 mi range showing. At 6:30 am, 13 hours later, it initially showed 61 mi range.
The sound in the garage was a low hum.

 

[palmer_md]

4-5 mph is about right for the 120v EVSE. Its only about 1500w. Get a full 10kW charge and that jumps to about 30mph.

 

[SeattleRav4]

My 40A EVSE is on its way. I was justing posting some data to show that it is indeed possible to live with just the 110V EVSE as a temporary measure.

 

[palmer_md]

I've been living with one for the past 6 mints on my leaf. We moved and the new home does not have 240v power in the garage yet.

 

[SeattleRav4]

While 4 days is certainly not long enough reach conclusions, I though I would offer some insights gained on the charger question. After reading many posts and looking at many websites, I was initially concerned about ordering my 40amp "charger" (EVSE) and not having it available when the car arrived. I was also scrambling to decide which make and model.
In hindsight I could have relaxed and taken my time deciding. The car has been on 11v power using the Toyota supplied EVSE since Thursday. I picked it up off the truck with 64 miles of charge estimated. By the time it arrived home, after serveral stops, it was down to 15 miles. Charge overnight brought it to 61 miles. After the day, 18 miles. Charge overnight, 72 miles. A day out and a quick stop at a Blink station (45 min), 26 miles. By noon the next day, fully charged.

My point is that unless you are pushing the range for your daily commute, it is not critical that you have a 240v EVSE online before the car arrives. As palmer_md says he has been living with 110v for months.

I am confident that most everyone will want a 240v but it may be that a simple 20 amp 240v might suffice for many. Considering that the Leviton 40a unit is almost 50% more than the 30a and the charge time difference is not that great, it might make more sense for many to get the smaller units.

Thoughts?

 

[Jscifres]

My point is that unless you are pushing the range for your daily commute, it is not critical that you have a 240v EVSE online before the car arrives. As palmer_md says he has been living with 110v for months.

I am confident that most everyone will want a 240v but it may be that a simple 20 amp 240v might suffice for many. Considering that the Leviton 40a unit is almost 50% more than the 30a and the charge time difference is not that great, it might make more sense for many to get the smaller units.

Thoughts?

Agreed. I'm also still using the supplied EVSE and household power without any range concerns. But, I'm only driving the car roughly 30-40 miles per day, MAX... and I have ICE cars ready to burn if needed.

I have a meeting with PG&E about installing a separate meter tomorrow... Will be interesting to evaluate the options after that meeting.

 

[TonyWilliams]

....-40 miles per day, MAX... and I have ICE cars ready to burn if needed.

I have a meeting with PG&E about installing a separate meter tomorrow... Will be interesting to evaluate the options after that meeting.

All the discussions about charge rate clearly revolve around YOUR specific needs. The 120 volt / 12 amp / 1.44kW EVSE with the Rav4 is just short of worthless for me. I've already had it modified for both 120 or 240 volt (2.88kW), which is a reasonable option for the small size and portability of the unit. The latter will provide 7-9 miles of range per hour charging.

I have already driven 35,000 EV miles with a 16 amp charger car. No thanks for me. Example; yesterday, my wife did not plug the car in properly. I started the day with about a quarter tank of electrons, and 80 miles of driving to do throughout the day. With a wimpy 120 volts, the car was effectively out for the day (or three) waiting to charge.

With a 40 amp EVSE in my garage, I drove 20 miles in the morning, charged for an hour-ish to gain about 25-30 miles range, drove 25 more miles, charge another hour-ish for 25-30 miles range, burned that up, had to charge at a public 208 volt / 30 amp EVSE (6.1kW, or about 15-20 miles range added per hour), and got home again for another hour or two of charging and then went to dinner and gym.

My day would have been ruined without that dependable Clipper Creek 40 amp in my garage. In addition, for folks who must fit a certain time window for "Time of Use" electrical metering, you must pick the EVSE that will get the job done. Since my window is 5 hours, it would be "penny wise, pound foolish" to get a cheaper EVSE to pay 300-400% more for electricity outside that window.

Finally, 120 volt charging is grossly inefficient compared to faster charge rates. In the Nissan LEAF, we factor about 73% efficiency at 120 volt / 12 amp and about 83% at 240 / 12 amp and 85% at 240 volt / 16 amp. The same trends would be true in the Rav4.

Of course, I can't quite imagine dropping $50k on a car and then wanting the cheapest charging option that will make do, or keeping an oil burner car as a backup (paying insurance / maintenance / depreciation). But, I also recognize that there are folks who will.

And that's why their are choices out there. Personally, I want an 80 amp option like the Tesla Model S. The actual onboard 40 amp charger is about $3700, plus "install". No, it won't be a bolt on, simple modification.

 

[Jscifres]

Of course, I can't quite imagine dropping $50k on a car and then wanting the cheapest charging option that will make do, or keeping an oil burner car as a backup (paying insurance / maintenance / depreciation). But, I also recognize that there are folks who will.

Funny you should bring up the 'cheap' charging option

This $35k car, may end up costing me upwards of $100k when I'm done sorting out how to charge it. No, I don't have any funky electrical issues and I will very likely install a 240V charger whenever I get around to it. Instead, this car is winding up to be the catalyst to install MORE solar in an effort to blank out our energy bills (PG&E extortion pricing).

Long story short... I may end up having to do a pretty major overhaul of our pool (which currently only needs minor repairs) and nearby landscaping to accommodate the additional solar array and other improvements my wife has been asking for.

Thank God that I bought this car more for how it drives than for saving money... or I'd be a pretty unhappy camper right now! LOL!

 

[SeattleRav4]

Hopefully we can get some more personal experiences related so that newcomers can identify an anecdote with their personal situation.

For me personally while I am currently in "110v" mode, I just received the confirmation email that my 40a Leviton is shipped so I will be moving over much closer to Tony's "high amp 240v" mode. Once I have another EVSE I intend to mod my 110v cable and work on some other improvements that will make using the car on a frequent basis as seamless as possible.

With luck I hope to get a Tesla Model X when they become available, assuming the price is rational.

 

[TeCKis300]

UPS dropped off my Leviton 40 yesterday and I just opened the package.

Pleasantly surprised with the build quality and aesthetics. It's mostly plastic, but it is of the nice durable type. The cabling is thick and heavy as expected, but it has a surprisingly pliable and supple quality to it.

Now to run a circuit and get it installed in my garage. Shouldn't be too bad.

 

[Dsinned]

I agree with Jscifres . . . buying an EV provides the catalyst to "going green" in many other ways too. If not for such generous Federal tax credits, I think driving around on dinosaur fuel and not planning to install a solar array on my rooftop, would still be the norm for me. The ROI on these kind of "things" will be a decade or two away, but I want to leave the planet as "clean" as I can for the next generation. I only wish more people were like us.

 

[TeCKis300]

Woohoo, EVSE is now up and running - http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=167&p=1102#p1102

 

[jocaroth]

For any 240V charger you will need a 240V line coming from a 50A breaker dedicated to a 240V outlet. Leviton sells a way overpriced outlet installation kit for under $100 which is simply a plastic outlet box, a 240V receptacle, a weatherproof cover, and a wall mount for the charger itself. Now, the charger is a separate purchase and others have noted deals around $1000 for it. Does it require professional installation? If you can hang a shirt in the closet and plug in a lamp, then you can install the charger given that your 240 receptacle is already in and you can drill two holes in a wall to mount the wall mount. Installation is simply hanging the charger on the wall mount and plugging it in. ANY charger you buy will need the wall outlet and probably wall hanger too. There's a YouTube video that shows the whole process for the Leviton as well.

 

[Dsinned]

Installation IS relatively easy, "if" you already have the electrical infrastructure to power it up. If you don't, then that is when things can get more complicated and add to the cost significantly.

I believe Leviton's "installation kit" also has the wall mount bracket, so it is a fairly essential accessory. I needed and purchased that kit to install my Leviton EVB32 series EVSE. I think a few here may have even managed to get that kit thrown in for free when ordering a L2 EVSE directly from Leviton.

I just want to add the importance of the output cord length, even if that costs extra. I believe the longer the better, whereas the longest available seems to be no more than 25'. A longer cord is well worth it for the added flexibility and convenience of charging an EV outside your garage in the driveway.

 

[jocaroth]

Yes, the preinstall kit has the required wall hanger for the charger as I mentioned, and it is basically essential. I wasn't offered it as a bundle from Leviton. As I said, Leviton has a video posted for how to do the wiring as well, and here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-t6VYevmno

You can save well over a thousand if you do it yourself instead of having Leviton's electricians do it.

 

[SeattleRav4]

While the installation kit does include the wall hanger, it is not really necessary.
I think Leviton got UL listing for a 40 amp pluggable service by including the plastic "guard" on the outlet. The wall hanger does make the installation easier because you mount it with 1 screw then fix it with a second one. It is easier mostly because once you have mounted the 1/2 pound wall hanger, the 20ish pound "charger" just sets onto the hanger. Holding the "charger" up to mount it would be more difficult but not bad. The "charger" does have mounting holes, they will be just harder to get set right.

The other thing not clear from the pictures is that the "flush mount" option just plugs directly into a flush mounted receptacle. The "plug" is physically part of the unit. If you never plan to access the plug for other things, it provides a cleaner look.

If I were to do it again, I would save the 90 bucks and just buy the parts, instead of the kit, at the hardware store, but I think I would add the plastic receptacle cover just for the added protection.

 

[jspearman]

I didn't buy the kit, since I already have a receptacle in place from my Blink unit. Glad to hear it isn't absolutely necessary, but I plan to call tomorrow and see if they would throw the hanger in for free.