Complete 12 volt electrical failure

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I also find the language in the Toyota Extend Warranty paperwork very lacking related to our vehicle because of the different components involved. If you look at the specifically excluded items they seem to fall in about 3 categories - Normal Wear Items (brake pads, clutch disc, heater hoses, wiper blades, etc), Cosmetic items and body work (seat fabric, bright trim, sheet metal, paint, etc), and items that have their own long warranty (hybrid battery pack, hybrid vehicle relay assembly, etc).

I am planning on buying a Toyota Platinum VSA before the initial 3/36 period passes. Keep in mind that the 12V battery is NOT covered by the extended warranty.
 
Remember, in "CA" I believe the mandated warranty for a BEV is 10 years or 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first. I think this covers the big battery and rest of the drive train, (but probably not the 12V battery, which I think is covered by Toyota for the first 36 months). On a car as "tempermental" as the RAV4 EV (and seemingly lacking in-house support from Toyota), I think an extended warranty might be good to have as well. Although, I don't have any extended coverage (yet) either. I'll consider it before the first 36 months expires.

As a follow up to my car's electrical failure, as expected, the dealer replaced the 12V battery and I picked up the car Saturday. Everything seemed back to "normal". However, yesterday morning, while still fairly cold outside, the car's 12V battery warning light stayed on and the terminal voltage was slightly less than 12V (actually 11.6V, which is abnormal) with the car turned on and in the "Ready" state. NOT GOOD, so I took it straight back to my local Toyota dealer for another go around.

I think the REAL PROBLEM with my car is the 12V Charging (DC-DC Converter) module. It has become VERY unreliable, especially in cold weather.

Today, I'm still waiting for the word on my car while it is still in the shop. Yesterday, they gave me a rental (Prius) anticipating it may take several days to order replacement parts (from Tesla) to make the repairs. I suspect they will replace the HV-DC to LV-DC converter module since the car's 12V battery is entirely dependent on that module to stay charged while in operation.

Stay tuned . . .
 
Is there a way for the mechanics to check full functionality of the HV-DC to LV-DC module(s)?

I'm guessing I will see another 12V battery failure again at some point because nothing was done to my car. My guess is they checked the health of the 12V battery which has now been fully charged after my jumpstart and 15 mile drive to the dealership.

How do I even demand that they check out my car beyond just checking that the 12V battery isn't dead? Also, I'm assuming the HV-DC to LV-DC is covered under the 8yr/100K BEV drivetrain warranty?
 
Tony, just for clarification, i would be checking this across the 12V battery terminals?

Thanks for your insight. I'll take my DMM to the dealership.
 
In the warranty and maintenance guide that came with the car it says the drive train/electrical components (dc-dc, charger, etc) are covered up to 60k miles.

page 12
http://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms/T-MMS-12RAV4EV/pdf/2012_Toyota_RAV4_EV_WMG.pdf

I purchased the extended warranty (platinum, 6 yrs, 125k miles) from Toyota of Greenfield (in Massachusetts) for $1140. Called Toyota corporate directly to confirm that it covers the all of the Tesla components. They said yes.
 
Dsinned said:
Tony, my 2012 VOLT qualified for the latter, so that why I thought it was 10 years/150K miles.
Click to expand...
That's because CARB rules state that emissions components have to have a 10 year, 150,000 mile warranty, and the battery on a hybrid is considered an emissions component. I got a new exhaust manifold on a Jeep at 70K, and a new main battery for a Prius at 128K because of that rule. It doesn't apply to BEVs since there are no emissions.
 
Kohler Controller said:
In the warranty and maintenance guide that came with the car it says the drive train/electrical components (dc-dc, charger, etc) are covered up to 60k miles.

page 12
http://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms/T-MMS-12RAV4EV/pdf/2012_Toyota_RAV4_EV_WMG.pdf

I purchased the extended warranty (platinum, 6 yrs, 125k miles) from Toyota of Greenfield (in Massachusetts) for $1140. Called Toyota corporate directly to confirm that it covers the all of the Tesla components. They said yes.
Click to expand...
Don't forget that the Gateway ECU is also in the Powertrain Warranty. I am happy with the 5yr/60k powertrain warranty. It's things like the heater that would be most likely to fail at a cost higher than the 8yr/100k warranty that I'm planning to get. The fact that the powertrain would also be covered all the way out to that term is also a huge plus.
 
davewill said:
Dsinned said:
Tony, my 2012 VOLT qualified for the latter, so that why I thought it was 10 years/150K miles.
Click to expand...
That's because CARB rules state that emissions components have to have a 10 year, 150,000 mile warranty, and the battery on a hybrid is considered an emissions component. I got a new exhaust manifold on a Jeep at 70K, and a new main battery for a Prius at 128K because of that rule. It doesn't apply to BEVs since there are no emissions.
Click to expand...
The 10yr/150k is specific to some high level of emissions compliance like PHEV or AT-PZEV or something like that. CARB does not demand that kind of emissions warranty on standard ICE vehicles. However, I'm willing to bet that CARB insisted on the 8/100 HV battery warranty on BEVs. It will also be interesting to see what warranty is required on FCEVs.
 
I got my car back from the dealership. It doesn't look like they did anything other than check to see if my 12V battery was working. Car seems to be running normal now.

when I picked up my car, I checked the voltages with the car idle and in ready mode and they read ~12V and 14V respectively.

I'm puzzled at why my 12V battery was dead. I had driven 30 miles in the morning that day and left my car sitting in a parking garage for another 9 hours before I found the battery failure. If my DC-DC converter is functional as the voltage check shows, my 30 mile commute should have given it a healthy charge, right?

What else would have caused my 12V battery to be dead?
 
miimura said:
The 10yr/150k is specific to some high level of emissions compliance like PHEV or AT-PZEV or something like that. CARB does not demand that kind of emissions warranty on standard ICE vehicles. However, I'm willing to bet that CARB insisted on the 8/100 HV battery warranty on BEVs. It will also be interesting to see what warranty is required on FCEVs.
Click to expand...
Decided to look it up. The details differ slightly, but you're essentially correct.

From: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/warranty.pdf

• Warranty Requirements for 1990 and Subsequent Model Passenger Cars, Light-Duty Trucks, Medium-Duty
Vehicles, and Motor Vehicle Engines Used in Such Vehicles.
  • o Examples: Passenger cars, light-duty trucks, or medium-duty vehicles that have a GVWR between 8,501 to 14,000 pounds.
    CCR §2037 Defects Warranty
    • covers emission-related parts 3 years / 50K miles
      covers high-cost emission-related parts 7 years / 70K miles*
*Federal Emissions Warranty - EPA420-F-96-020 - Covers these three specified major emissions control components for the first 8 years, or 80K miles on 1995 and newer vehicles:
  • Catalytic converters;
    ƒ The electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU);
    ƒ The onboard emissions diagnostic device or computer (OBD).
    o PZEV (Partial Zero Emission Vehicles) Certified Vehicles – for information visit - http://www.driveclean.ca.gov.
    • CCR §1962 Defects Warranty
      • covers emission-related parts 15 years / 150K miles
        energy storage device (battery) 10 years
Click to expand...

I must have just been under 70K on the Jeep, which was outside the standard warranty, but inside the mandated 70k above.
 
Yeah, my 2001 Passat V6 needed one catalytic converter at 85,000 and another at 95,000 miles. The engine has high oil consumption which probably killed them and VW has a well calibrated limit on oil consumption before they will do anything about it under warranty. 1qt/1,000 miles is really high, but that is probably the level that will kill the cats within the warranty period of 80,000 miles.
 
Update: My car is still at the dealer just waiting for instructions from Tesla. It's been there for 3 full days already just WAITING to get a repair procedure started. Hey, I could be wrong but it sure looks like some sort of defective (or unreliable at best) DC/DC charging module seemingly aggravated by unusually cold weather. On the bright side I've had a Prius Hybrid rental to play with, which is really a gutless car compared to the RAV4 EV.
 
Dsinned said:
Update: My car is still at the dealer just waiting for instructions from Tesla. It's been there for 3 full days already just WAITING to get a repair procedure started. Hey, I could be wrong but it sure looks like some sort of defective (or unreliable at best) DC/DC charging module seemingly aggravated by unusually cold weather. On the bright side I've had a Prius Hybrid rental to play with, which is really a gutless car compared to the RAV4 EV.
Click to expand...
boring RELIABLE TRANSPORTATION.
 
Ok, time for another (belated) update . . . I picked up my car on Friday, the 16th of January and returned the rental. There was no charge, and my Toyota Service Manager said during the entire time they had my car in the shop (nearly two weeks), there was no trouble found. Furthermore, Tesla advised removal of my cigarette lighter battery voltage monitoring device as it may be the cause of "interference" with their DC to DC battery charging control module in the car. Does that sound plausible to anybody here and least of all me???

Anyway, the problem has indeed gone away just as mysteriously as it first occurred. The weather is not quite as cold as it was then, but still fairly cold during early morning, so perhaps the problem will flare up again this coldest time of year. I'm watching it closely and have instructed my wife to stop driving the car immediately if the 12V battery low voltage warning instrument panel red light comes on steady again. So far so good . . .
 

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