Dec 2014 sales Rav4 EV - "37" Production Ended Aug 2014

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Dsinned said:
...In December ... sales were still terrible. This tells me "the market" hardly exists and that is a real problem with respect to Toyota's marketing efforts. The other problem is at the dealerships, where ignorance is a major impediment to potential customers. Toyota's sales force at the dealerships is not helping sales at all imho!

Looks like it's not just Toyota dropping the ball on the sales experience...

Article: "How not to sell a Ford C-max Energi"

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130107/CARNEWS01/130109916

Which leads me to believe that the consumer interest in EVs is all generated by word of mouth advertising... And a car with unique looks will initiate more conversations than one which blends into the crowd.

Story below:

ear-end U.S. auto sales results have been reported, and for the most part the news is excellent -- gains of 5 to 10 percent are the norm.

Automakers are fortunate to have good products in high demand, because if the tales of consumer woe that come to our inboxes are an indication, many of their dealerships still appear hell-bent on undermining their efforts.

Luxury automakers are an exception: They understand the importance of a premium sales experience, and they're actively taking steps to ensure the process is smooth. But visiting a mass-market brand store can have all the allure of a colonoscopy, a point driven home to me by a friend over the recent holiday break.

This friend, whom we'll call “Mike” for anonymity's sake since his purchase was as a company car, was given a choice of several green vehicles. He selected a Ford C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid over a Toyota Prius or a Chevrolet Volt and managed to find a dealer in his home state of Florida who actually had one in stock.

That's where the fun began.

Being a company car transaction, haggling over price and financing -- the bane of most consumers -- was trouble-free. But I'll let Mike explain the rest of his experience buying one of Ford's most technologically advanced flagship products. It starts upon exiting the finance department:

“After a wasteful hour and 20 minutes with one, then two, then three sales guys trying to show me the features and functions of my car, it was obvious no one knew how the car worked. And they all told me several times, 'We don't have any of these on the lot to play with and figure out. It's basically the same as the regular C-Max, with a few extras.'”

Not exactly the product evangelism Ford is likely aiming for, but…

“They could not tell me how and when the car would be using electric [power] and when it would be operating in gas/hybrid mode. There is a button on the dash that has 'EV' on it. When you push it, a screen pops up on the dash and gives you three choices: Auto, EV, & EV+. At the dealer I asked about the button and pushed it. The screen popped up and 'Auto' was selected and the other two options were not available. I asked why [this was the case] and no one could tell me. 'Once you start driving it, those will be available,' they said.”

Really? Could it have been that the battery was near empty on available juice, deactivating EV mode? As it turns out, yes.

“Your battery is just low now, it will charge as you drive and use your brakes.”

Or you could…plug it in. Being that the C-Max Energi is a plug-in hybrid. But no one showed him how or where to do that, either.

At least the dealer was able to help my friend connect his smartphone, right? After all, the Sync voice-activated infotainment system has been in Ford vehicles for years now. Sadly, no, the store personnel could not; after Mike was unable to connect the device, the salesperson blamed my friend's hardware.

“I was told my phone software must be old (it's a brand new phone) and I needed to upgrade the phone software and take it to the Verizon store and have them help me,” said Mike. “They also told me that their one Sync expert was on vacation, or he might be able to help.”

The final insult? My friend had heard about Ford's ambient lighting system, a simple, fun and largely useless feature that's been on many Ford vehicles for years. When Mike inquired as to whether his C-Max was so equipped, the salesman not only didn't know, but he basically dismissed the feature entirely: “Well, I'm not sure. I can't really see it and plus it's hard to see in the daytime.”

Translation: “I don't know so you shouldn't care.”

Okay, so that wasn't the final insult to this consumer's intelligence.

“I had to ask them to put gas in it. The salesman told me, 'We might be able to do that. Any other questions?'”

There you go. Years of effort and billions of dollars spent in product development, engineering and marketing, frittered away thanks to an ill-informed, poorly trained and -- most definitely in this case -- lazy car dealer.

Even if Mike's experience was an anomaly -- bad experiences occur everywhere -- the truth is that last mile in the extraordinary journey from an engineer's pencil to a customer's hands remains the most vexing problem facing carmakers today. I've experienced this type of treatment at dealers, as have friends and family. I'd wager many of you readers can share a similar horror story.

What's an automaker to do? Remember: Dealers are independent franchisees, so there's only so much a parent company can do to ensure the customer service experience meets minimal expectations. Manufacturers do this by rewarding dealers on customer satisfaction indexes and consumer ratings.

And coming to the dealer's defense, salespeople are usually paid commissions when they close a deal -- their incentive is to spend as little time as possible selling a vehicle (for as much as possible) so they can move on to the next deal. Churn and earn. Time spent in product training is time salespeople can't spend selling. Sure, it's an investment in customer satisfaction (and if the salesperson considers it, it's an investment in his sales abilities), but anyone who's ever worked in a showroom is trying to contain their chortles right about now.

This twisted system ensures automakers and dealers alike pay the price in lost business, angry word-of-mouth anecdotes and bashing on blogs and social media sites. Carmakers must continue to invest time and money educating all consumer-facing dealership employees on new products and features before they hit showroom floors. Dealers must compensate salespeople for the deal and for truly satisfied customers. Dollars spent at the dealer level will pay dividends far greater than the millions blown on, say, forgettable and overhyped Super Bowl commercials.

As is often the case, my friend Mike was confident enough in the product to push past the dealer's best efforts to drive him into the arms of a competitor. And he spent 20 minutes extolling the virtues of his new C-Max Energi. But when the time comes, will he choose another Ford? If so, will he buy it from the same dealership?

His answer today is no to both.
 
Jscifres said:
There you go. Years of effort and billions of dollars spent in product development, engineering and marketing, frittered away thanks to an ill-informed, poorly trained and -- most definitely in this case -- lazy car dealer.

Even if Mike's experience was an anomaly -- bad experiences occur everywhere...

And coming to the dealer's defense, salespeople are usually paid commissions when they close a deal -- their incentive is to spend as little time as possible selling a vehicle (for as much as possible) so they can move on to the next deal. Churn and earn. Time spent in product training is time salespeople can't spend selling.
Great article, Jscifres!

Mike's experience was no anomaly; I've only ever had two car salesman know more than I did about a car. In both cases, they got an immediate sale because they SOLD the car by showing me how all the respective features met my needs and desires. Perhaps there were better cars on the market at the time, but those two salesmen got my business because they knew what they were talking about, could demonstrate every single feature, and therefore could show me why I needed to have that car immediately.

As for salespeople only getting a commission on a closed deal, I've never walked into a dealership and seen so many customers milling around that the salespersons were "churning and earning." Rather, I walk into most dealerships and the salespersons are "smoking and griping" amongst themselves outside, making themselves stink, look ignorant, and wasting time that could be spent leaning their product backwards and forwards. Why dealership managers tolerate that is beyond me...probably because those managers are typically the only remaining loser salesperson after all the others get fired or quit!

Perhaps other people are different, but I will not buy a car from a stupid salesperson who knows less about the car than I do. Period. And when a dealership loses a sale because of that, I make sure the general manager and dealership owner know it. Why would I want to buy from a dealership that would never be able to help me with my car after I bought it? No way.
 
I suspect this problem is only going to intensify as these new "advance technology" EVs come to market. I consider myself a "technical" person, but it took me a couple of days at least to figure everything out and more like a month to commit many operational RAV4 EV procedures to memory. I'm still working on the GoM.

What disturbs me the most, is my dealership inexplicably was totally and completely ignorant on the many very generous automaker's financial incentives this holiday season. These kind of incentive are total no brainers when it comes to selling cars, and the recent incentives on the 2012 Toyota RAV4 EV must have been close to the top of the list!

Yet, on one very memorable occasions prior to Christmas, multiple sales people at my local Toyota dealer kept on denying the existence of the recent $5000 cashback deal on the purchase of this vehicle. There were several of these cars on the lot too, none with any placards advertising such a deal! How dumb is that?!!! Even one so-called "Manager" I spoke with, also denied any such deal existed on the RAV4 EV. Yet, this exact same cashback incentive was cleared shown on that dealership's own website. Duh!!!
 
Dsinned said:
What disturbs me the most, is my dealership inexplicably was totally and completely ignorant on the many very generous automaker's financial incentives this holiday season. These kind of incentive are total no brainers when it comes to selling cars, and the recent incentives on the 2012 Toyota RAV4 EV must have been close to the top of the list!

2 things in their defense:

1. There is not as big a margin on these cars as there is on the ICE counterpart. Low margin, combined with low volume equals low interest from the sales channel.

2. You can't sell a BEV to someone walking in off the street without a lot of handholding and effort. Buyers of these cars are coming in already informed, so no need to train staff.


I personally think that if Toyota really wanted to move these cars, that they could leverage the Rental service and give people 24hours in the rental EV to try it out. Give any sales guy who refers the customer to the rental service some $20 incentive and a cut of any future deal with that customer. $20 to refer someone to the rental might be all it takes. Cuz I know after I rented one, I had to get one! And I honestly didn't even want an EV.
 
TonyWilliams said:
Even with a total of $17,500 in incentives, only 52 sold in Dec 2012.

$7500 fed tax credit
$2500 California rebate
$5000 Toyota cash
$2500 Toyota "loyalty" cash


I received a text message from my local Toyota dealer yesterday stating that the Toyota cash incentive is now $6000. We'll have to see if this boosts sales.
 
Luke26 said:
I received a text message from my local Toyota dealer yesterday stating that the Toyota cash incentive is now $6000. We'll have to see if this boosts sales.

I've been waiting to see what would happen after the 7th, given the dismal sales figures from December. I went to a local dealership today and asked. The salesperson misunderstood and listed the federal and state tax incentives. We neve got to a clear understanding - me asking about the $5K cash back, he insisting it was $7500 from the feds. I finally gave up.

He also assured me that, since the last three vehicles I've purchased have been Toyotas, I am "a very loyal customer" and he thought I would be eligible for the $2500 loyalty credit...but he'd have to ask the finance department.

I "kicked the tires" and left. Nice looking vehicle, though my wife thinks it's too big.

I checked Google news this evening and could not find anything about Toyota extending the cash back offer. I checked toyota.com and it is similarly silent on the matter. I'd love to see that $6K offer in print somewhere...
 
Dsinned said:
What disturbs me the most, is my dealership inexplicably was totally and completely ignorant on the many very generous automaker's financial incentives this holiday season.

Disappointing that this ignorance is probably true for the majority of dealerships.

However, I'd like the share that my experience at Frank Toyota was very satisfying in this respect. The internet sales rep - Garrett Mercer - was very much in touch with the RAV4 EV features as well as the incentives. While I was pretty versed in the car, he held his own. I'd wholly recommend him for anyone looking to get one in SoCal.
 
virtualy said:
I've been waiting to see what would happen after the 7th, given the dismal sales figures from December. I went to a local dealership today and asked. The salesperson misunderstood and listed the federal and state tax incentives. We neve got to a clear understanding - me asking about the $5K cash back, he insisting it was $7500 from the feds. I finally gave up.

He also assured me that, since the last three vehicles I've purchased have been Toyotas, I am "a very loyal customer" and he thought I would be eligible for the $2500 loyalty credit...but he'd have to ask the finance department.

I "kicked the tires" and left. Nice looking vehicle, though my wife thinks it's too big.

I checked Google news this evening and could not find anything about Toyota extending the cash back offer. I checked toyota.com and it is similarly silent on the matter. I'd love to see that $6K offer in print somewhere...


If you live in Northern California, I would recommend Toyota Sunnyvale. The Direct Sales Manager, Kevin Chew, sent me the text about the $6000 Toyota cash incentive. His cell is (510) 331-3708. You can text him too. This is a no nonsense dealership, and the RAV4 EV is our second Toyota purchased there.
 
My experience was certainly frustrating and would not have ended in a purchase had I not had the advantage of a lot of prior research and this forum. I spotted the Toyota rebate deal on the Tesla forum. From there I went to my local dealer for details. While very nice and very willing to let me test drive a gas powered RAV4 they had no info on EVs. While they are not selling them outside CA, I was exepecting him to at least have some literature available.
So no to be thrwarted I started calling CA dealers. Lots of conflicting information. The LA dealers must be moving most of the cars becasue they seemed to have the most correct information. They also are the least willing to negotiate on the price. After many phone calls, sifting through what answers correlated so I felt they were correct, I cut a deal in NCA.
The one part I am still not sure anybody knows is the Toyota Loyalty rebate, $2500. While the "secret" form seems to imply 98-03 RAV EVs only it does not actually say it. http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=126&start=20, "Offer valid for current RAV EV owners (RAV EV model years 1998–2003)."
It does say "Only the original customer signed certificate will be honored. Mechanical reproductions or facsimiles are not valid"
If I could get hold of one of the certificates I would send it in given that I now own 3 Toyotas and report back on success or failure.
 
Luke26 said:
If you live in Northern California, I would recommend Toyota Sunnyvale. The Direct Sales Manager, Kevin Chew, sent me the text about the $6000 Toyota cash incentive. His cell is (510) 331-3708. You can text him too. This is a no nonsense dealership, and the RAV4 EV is our second Toyota purchased there.
Thanks, Luke. Just called. He confirms $6K cash back, 0% financing. Somehow the base price has crept up to $51,414, which is $400 higher than that shown on the local dealership's web site for the same color (Blizzard).
 
SeattleRav4 said:
So...I started calling CA dealers. ...I cut a deal in NCA.
Which dealership in NorCal?

SeattleRav4 said:
If I could get hold of one of the certificates I would send it in given that I now own 3 Toyotas and report back on success or failure.
Yes, please.
 
virtualy said:
I checked Google news this evening and could not find anything about Toyota extending the cash back offer. I checked toyota.com and it is similarly silent on the matter. I'd love to see that $6K offer in print somewhere...

Yes, they did increase the incentive to $6000 Toyota cash for Jan 2013. No word on the loyalty money.

Still 0%


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Folsom Toyota in Folsom CA (Sacramento)
Tell Ben I sent you. :)

Here's a tip. While they are "listing" prices higher than MSRP, Folsom has the normal dealer "negotiating room". Make them an offer.

I have no idea if they have more incentive now than just before the end of the year but on Dec. 23rd they were willing to make a deal.
 
Holy Cow! Even MORE (up to $6k now) cashback is being offered! I have never seen such desperate measures to somehow jump start sales on a newly introduced vehicle. On the one hand I'm glad to see it since I am a strong advocate of the RAV4 EV . . . on the other hand, it pisses me off to have been so eager to buy one after they first came out; now only to be suffering with a MAJOR case of buyer's remorse! If you ask me, Toyota ought to send all of us who bought a 2012 RAV4 EV prior to Thanksgiving a partial refund in gratitude for being their most "loyal" customers. Collectively, we, as the fraternity of new owners, have actually done the most to help sell these cars, yet our reward has essentially been a slap in the face for being so eager to buy them. I did not even get the 0% financing deal, which was offered on the standard RAV4s at the time. :x
 
If you ask me they ought to be supporting this (and the Tesla) board out of the dealer commisions becasue the sales they are getting are from the web.
In fact if they want to sell these, that is where they should be putting their marketing money.
I would say they could offer price breaks on maintenance for forum supporters but there isn't a lot of margin in "Check the drivers floor mat, check the fluid levels, tighten any loose bolts" :)
Perhap their money would be better spent helping put in EVSEs like Nissan and GM did?
 
Hi all,

I'm new to this forum, but am an EV owner for the last 18 months (leaf). I am very interested in migrating (or advancing some might say) to the Rav4 ev. However, I am only interested in leasing the vehicle, not purchasing it. I am aware of all the current incentives (as of today: $6k Toyota cash back, 0% finance/lease and the tax incentives), but I can't figure out why Toyota is not passing on to the lessee the $7,500 tax credit when leasing. If we (as buyers) buy the car, we get the $7,500 tax credit; however if we lease, the leasing company gets it (Toyota). However, they should transfer that benefit to the lessee. So the actual incentives for leasing the car should be : $6k by Toyota (which is what they are willing to sponsor in order to boost sales), plus the gov tax credit (which they are getting anyway). Which brings the lease cost to $35,500; and with a residual of almost $21k, the actual lease should be for about $14k-$15k, which will turn out to be less than $300/month.

The way it works today is if you lease the car, you're missing out on a huge governmental incentive, despite the fact that you are driving an EV (which is what the tax credit exits for).

Btw, if you lease a Nissan leaf, Coda or any other EV, the tax credit IS reflected in the lease (in addition to manufacturer's promotions)

Would love to hear your thoughts, if anyone has an opinion/info.
 
0 guilt said:
I can't figure out why Toyota is not passing on to the lessee the $7,500 tax credit when leasing....

Would love to hear your thoughts, if anyone has an opinion/info.

There's nothing to "figure out". They keep the $7500 on a lease, as they have a right to do. That didn't meet with my personal approval, so I purchased.

Nothing is preventing you from leasing except you. If the monthly payment meets your approval, do you really care about $7500 that was never yours? I only purchased becasue it seemed to be the smarter choice to me at the time for overall cost. Plus, I generally drive way more than 12 or 15 thousand miles per year that are typical of a lease.

I would not hesitate to pick up a Rav4 at the new offering (potentially $18,500 total discount) and 0% finance, zero down.
 
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