E-MotorWerks JuiceBox - an open source 15kW EVSE

[fooljoe]

A 10-50 outlet is not the same as a 10-30 outlet - the former has a straight blade neutral and is good for 50 amps, and the latter has the "L" blade neutral and is good for only 30 amps. You most likely CAN'T just swap the receptacle out on the wall to a 14-50; you need to use an adapter instead (or change the plug end of your EVSE.) A 10-50 would generally be installed on a 3-wire circuit, with hot, hot, neutral (no dedicated ground.) A 14-50 requires 4 wires - the same 3 plus a dedicated ground.

Leave the old outlet there (assuming it's still in good shape) or replace it with a modern one that only requires 3 wires, like a 6-50 (connect what was the neutral to ground and put green tape around the white jacket) and make an adapter with a 14-50 receptacle and a plug to match your outlet. When you wire the 14-50 receptacle in your adapter, wire only the hot and ground prongs - leave its neutral prong unconnected. You could do the same on the wall and it would work, but it's not a good idea having a receptacle permanently installed on your wall advertising something that isn't there - if someone were to try to plug in an RV or appliance with a 14-50 plug the requires the neutral, it won't work. If you really want a 14-50 on the wall, then you should pull another wire through the conduit (if there is conduit) for the dedicated ground, or just redo the wiring entirely.

 

[Dsinned]

I believe Fooljoe is more knowledgeable and his post is accurate, but to avoid any possible misunderstanding, unnecessary adapter purchase or extensive rewiring, it might be helpful to "visualize" what we are talking about with respect to various 250V AC outlets and their physical differences. My only related experience was to replace a NEMA 6-50R (250V/50A welder's outlet) in my garage with a NEMA 14-50R (3 pole to 4 poles, with N/C to Neutral on the latter), which worked fine with my JuiceBox.

The first two receptacles shown below are obviously physically incompatible with the NEMA 14-50 plug that comes with a JuiceBox. The last receptacle shown IS indeed compatible, because it is precisely the outlet type required.

Notice, the NEMA 14-50R receptacle requires a mating "4" prong plug, whereas the other two only require "3" prongs. The JuiceBox does not need a "Neutral" connection, so all 3 outlets are "ELECTRICALLY" compatible with a JUICEBOX, but ONLY for this EVSE application. This is because all these outlets have the required safety GROUND connection, and the NEMA 14-50R's "reserved" Neutral wire connection, will not be used by the JuiceBox and therefore can be omited inside this receptacle.

Graphicsgirl, can you please identify which of these outlets you currently have installed and which one you intend to use with your JuiceBox with or without an AC Adapter?

Here's what a NEMA 10-50R outlet looks like (note that the triangular center hole is not used by the mating plug):

Here's what a NEMA 10-30R outlet looks like:

Here's what a NEMA 14-50R outlet looks like (note that the round center hole is not used by the mating plug):

 

[rickrides]

Another reason to have 40 amp charging ability at home: Yesterday I got home at 2pm and planned on leaving at 4pm and wanted to have a full standard charge for the evening. My 40 amp EVSE did the job.

 

[Graphicsgirl]

SO here is what I have. You can take a look and let me know what you all recommend we do. From the pic the wire clearly does not have enough connection for the 14 50 that we bought and thought we could swap out. So do we leave everything and get an adapter? Or do we go ahead and purchase new wiring and connect it to the new outlet?

On another note, I canceled my order on amazon and will order the correct thing directly from Emotor werks once we get this figured out. Appreciate all the help, I wish I could invite you over to take a look!

 

[fromport]

You can take a look and let me know what you all recommend we do.

Order a juicebox with a plug that directly fits this outlet.
The breaker and the wire is heavy enough.
If e-motorworks doesn't sell the 10-50 plug, get it somewhere else
like this one (just an example I quickly googled)


http://www.gatzies.com/p-69562-master-electrician-4-ft-62-81-srdt-gray-flat-range-cord.aspx

 

[TonyWilliams]

Another reason to have 40 amp charging ability at home: Yesterday I got home at 2pm and planned on leaving at 4pm and wanted to have a full standard charge for the evening. My 40 amp EVSE did the job.

Nobody intentionally refuels an oil car at a rate slower than the maximum.

40 amps is still ridiculous for midday charging compared to the mass market competition.

 

[Dsinned]

Graphicsgirl, unfortunately, it is too hard to say from the picture you just posted, but my recommendation would be to hire an Electrician to "professionally" install the new NEMA 14-50R you just bought.

The old outlet should be replaced because there is evidence of corroded conductor contacts inside the outlet. Even worse, it appears to be "nailed" to the inside of a junction box with two nails on the bottom, but nothing to secure it in place on the top. That old outlet was definitely not installed iaw code!

Nevertheless, the existing wiring appears to be acceptable. A qualified Electrician can better assess the overall condition and advise you whether to replace some (or all) of the wiring. He may be able to simply reuse the existing wiring to install the new outlet. It's hard to tell, but the old wiring does appear adequately rated for a 40A maximum load circuit (to charge your RAV4 EV), provided the overall length of the wires is <50'.

The one hiccup could be that the existing wiring to your old outlet is lacking a 4th wire.

Technically, the installation of a new NEMA 14-50R outlet should have three insulated, power conductors 6AWG in size, AND a ground wire, even if the Neutral wire is unused by the load. I only see two wire, one black and one white, (plus a ground wire), inside the junction box. (There is another wire feed with two blacks and one white with a solid copper conductor inside the insulation. I'm not sure which is the wiring feeder to the outlet.) There is no connection to the bare copper wire, which is kind of strange. To meet code, your Electrician may have to install another insulated wire to make a Neutral connection from the 14-50R outlet back to your main circuit breaker panel.

Tell him the Neutral will not be used (in fact, there is actually no connection inside the JuiceBox enclosure) and see what he says. This missing Neutral wire connection to the new outlet could mean the difference between a relatively straightforward installation that takes less than an hour, and one that could be considerably more expensive.

If you decide to go the (cheaper) adapter route, this is what you'll need:

. . . available from: http://www.evseadapters.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=57&product_id=56

 

[fooljoe]

Actually it looks like you could hook up a 14-50, based on the wiring coming in from the side of the box (2 black hots, one white neutral, and a bare ground?) What I'm concerned about are the wires coming in from the top - what are those for? Those lead me to believe this is not a dedicated circuit but has some additional 120V loads wired to it. I would not use this receptacle for charging at all if that's the case.

You could probably just disconnect those wires coming in from the top and connect a 14-50 to the wires coming in from the side and be fine, but you'll probably have some dead 120v outlets / lights / etc. that you'll need to find another way to power. Bottom line is you probably should have an electrician check it out.

 

[valerun]

hey guys - thanks for a great discussion!

I'd love to hear more about your suggestions on how to improve our product - please post here and let us know why.

thanks!
Valery

 

[Dsinned]

Hi Valery. Last night I was looking at my JB's WiFi stats on your server and noticed several changes. There used to be 3 charts, now there are only 2. Also, the lifetime kWh consumed and total dollars saved stats above the charts were no longer accurate (or perhaps never were?). The new ZOOM IN and OUT action buttons are a nice touch. Every time I zoomed in or out, the values for these two particular stats changed. At the bottom below the charts there is a comment about the new PEV program and that all JBs used in that program will have much faster (5 seconds) updating. Can you please explain anything more about any new features those JBs will have while participating in the program? I suspect, for one, AC measurements will be more accurate, or was this already implemented in V8.9 hardware and corresponding firmware? Will the measurement of "kWh" consumed while the JB is acting as a "submeter" be on par with a Residential Grade Meter (RGM)? Will end users be able to view any new (or more accurate) data via WiFi updates to a server similar to the one we view now? Have any JBs in the "new" enclosure started shipping yet and will they still be based on V8.9 HW and FW?

 

[Graphicsgirl]

We decided to go a little bit safer route and redo the whole thing. We really were not interested in burning down the "garage".
Just waiting for the JB to be delivered. We have been using the charger that came with the car.

 

[dstjohn99]

We have been using the charger that came with the car.

Oh my, I'm so sorry. With the factory plug if you charge ALL weekend you should be good for Monday, but then the rest of the week must be interesting. I hope your Juicebox comes quickly so you can enjoy your car.

 

[Dsinned]

. . . . and I think you will be very pleased with your JuiceBox! You might be one of the lucky first RAV4 EV owners to get a JB in a newly designed enclosure. Please post again after you get it and let us know how you like it and how it works out for you.

 

[10kbrat]

Just wanted to share, i was able to get my JuiceBox Pro 40 up and running last night, and I'll be the first to admit I'm not that WIFI or Internet saavy.

JuiceBox Pro 40 installation for a newbie

Unpacked the Juicebox and saw that we needed to install a 14-50 receptacle.

I went to the Home Depot, and was able to get the 6-3 wire to run the 20’ across the one-car garage from the junction box to the installation site of the JB Pro. I also purchased the 14-50 receptacle, designed for a cord end, similar to a stove outlet. Hindsight would have led me to a 4 SQ or 4 11/16 SQ junction box with a 14-50 receptacle and cover instead which is easier to work wth.

I threw the breaker and saw I had good power, 120v leg to ground, and 240v leg to leg. So I looked at the directions, and saw that I would need to locate the JB as a WAP. I was clueless, so I followed my husband’s directions from the instruction manual. I went to my phone and opened my WIFI connections. I then went to setup.com and loaded that page and had it ready.

We plugged in the JB and waited to see the new WIFI item show up and when it did, I clicked on it and entered the password GoElectric and was now using my JB as a WAP, and my phone as the interface. I was able to go to the setup.com page and see my home network and then connect the JB to the home network. No need to connect back to my home WIFI as my phone connected automatically once the JB was not in that mode anymore.

I went to the control room and logged into my account, and saw that my JB was online.

It worked well once I understood what i was doing

 

[Dsinned]

Congrats!

The JB's "WiFi" setup is probably the most difficult step in the installation. I have found it troublesome myself, but I'm glad you were able to make it work. Btw, if you have an Android mobile device, you can download the eMW app and use that to control your JB. An iPhone equivalent app is coming soon. However, be forewarned, it is also not so easy to understand how to set up for the first time with a new JB installation.

 

[10kbrat]

Thanks Dsinned! I actually downloaded the eMotorWerks app for my Android, and have it paired. It took a few tries with the plug, unplug, plug again, but it found it and it works well.

 

[Dsinned]

Terrific! Now your new JB installation can be as good as it can be! :mrgreen: